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#16
distazo Wrote:He is actually saying that YHWH = Yeshu.
There are some references he citated from the Tanakh (OT) where YHWH e.g. says: "Besides me, there is no saviour" While Acts 4:12 says that Yeshu' is the savior for humankind.
Funny, because this IS what the scriptures he gives support, but he seems to disagree with those scriptures.

Dear justalex, i really believe that you are interested in truth, far beyond your own mind or anything others have taught you. Please know that i only publically respond to you because i think it is in your interest to find truth by reasoning.
justalex Wrote:I'm so glad you put that this "imho" on there as that is not supported by scripture at all. Try reading Maaseh Shlichiym 2:16-21 where Kepha quotes nebiy Yo`EL in Yo`EL 2:28-32. Yo`EL certainly did not mean YAHUshuah or Yeshu in your case but ABBA YHWH.

Read the scriptures and find where YAHUshuah said, "In that day you shall ask me nothing. Amein, amein, anything you ask My ABBA, in My name, {HE SHALL GIVE IT TO YOU}." Note the "in my name" not " I " will give it to you but ABBA YHWH, so your statement about people being "confused" is self-applicable for you apparently.

Did Kepha change His mind in 4:12 or was he confused in ch. 2? I am quite sure he knew quite well the prophets' as most Ibriym did/do. Just reading the rest of ch 4 ITSELF shows that things were done "in the name of" YAHUshuah, just as He specified it should be done; the Sanhedrin even told them not to teach, "in the name of". However note that Kepha DID NOT use YAHUshuah's name in verse 19 as he was not talking about YAHUshuah but ABBA YHWH.
Read the text, how hard can it be? Start in verse 10. It is a 100% clear reference, without any doubt. And of course it is in perfect union with Joel, as the name Jesus addresses the Father and incorporates the name Yahweh.

justalex Wrote:These are little things that are missed by those that try to make ABBA YHWH and The Son, one.
I and my Father are one.
John 10:30

Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

As it is for now, let me ask you some of the questions i did not get answered by you directly:

Do you believe that:
1) Jesus is not God in any sense of the Word. He is also not Yahweh, as Yahweh is God, and Jesus is not God?
2) Jesus and God are completely seperate beings and are two different persons with different personalities?
3) Jesus is inferior to God in almost any sense (strength, knowledge, ...), except that he is also eternal just like God?
4) All our prayers should be directed to God (the Father), never Jesus Christ?
5) All our worship should be directed to God (the Father), never Jesus Christ?
6) Jesus is not a man in any sense of the word?
7) The Bible is inspired, but not all information in it is 100% accurate. The spoken words of Jesus that John recorded are more reliable than the words anyone else spoke, including narration of the texts?

And, who raised Jesus from the dead, reading these verses:
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the deadWink

What did Jeremiah and Isaiah say, who the messiah is?
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Wich name is superior, the name "Jesus" or the name Yahweh? And, who will you see in heaven, Jesus, the Father, of both?

And, a new one came up in this thread: Who is the messiah, YHWH, as stated countless times, or Jesus, as stated countless times?

Those are the little things missed by those that try to deny the divinity of Christ.
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.
Reply
#17
Andrej Wrote:
distazo Wrote:He is actually saying that YHWH = Yeshu.
There are some references he citated from the Tanakh (OT) where YHWH e.g. says: "Besides me, there is no saviour" While Acts 4:12 says that Yeshu' is the savior for humankind.
Funny, because this IS what the scriptures he gives support, but he seems to disagree with those scriptures.

Dear justalex, i really believe that you are interested in truth, far beyond your own mind or anything others have taught you. Please know that i only publically respond to you because i think it is in your interest to find truth by reasoning.
justalex Wrote:I'm so glad you put that this "imho" on there as that is not supported by scripture at all. Try reading Maaseh Shlichiym 2:16-21 where Kepha quotes nebiy Yo`EL in Yo`EL 2:28-32. Yo`EL certainly did not mean YAHUshuah or Yeshu in your case but ABBA YHWH.

Read the scriptures and find where YAHUshuah said, "In that day you shall ask me nothing. Amein, amein, anything you ask My ABBA, in My name, {HE SHALL GIVE IT TO YOU}." Note the "in my name" not " I " will give it to you but ABBA YHWH, so your statement about people being "confused" is self-applicable for you apparently.

Did Kepha change His mind in 4:12 or was he confused in ch. 2? I am quite sure he knew quite well the prophets' as most Ibriym did/do. Just reading the rest of ch 4 ITSELF shows that things were done "in the name of" YAHUshuah, just as He specified it should be done; the Sanhedrin even told them not to teach, "in the name of". However note that Kepha DID NOT use YAHUshuah's name in verse 19 as he was not talking about YAHUshuah but ABBA YHWH.
Read the text, how hard can it be? Start in verse 10. It is a 100% clear reference, without any doubt. And of course it is in perfect union with Joel, as the name Jesus addresses the Father and incorporates the name Yahweh.

justalex Wrote:These are little things that are missed by those that try to make ABBA YHWH and The Son, one.
I and my Father are one.
John 10:30

Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

As it is for now, let me ask you some of the questions i did not get answered by you directly:

Do you believe that:
1) Jesus is not God in any sense of the Word. He is also not Yahweh, as Yahweh is God, and Jesus is not God?
2) Jesus and God are completely seperate beings and are two different persons with different personalities?
3) Jesus is inferior to God in almost any sense (strength, knowledge, ...), except that he is also eternal just like God?
4) All our prayers should be directed to God (the Father), never Jesus Christ?
5) All our worship should be directed to God (the Father), never Jesus Christ?
6) Jesus is not a man in any sense of the word?
7) The Bible is inspired, but not all information in it is 100% accurate. The spoken words of Jesus that John recorded are more reliable than the words anyone else spoke, including narration of the texts?

And, who raised Jesus from the dead, reading these verses:
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the deadWink

What did Jeremiah and Isaiah say, who the messiah is?
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Wich name is superior, the name "Jesus" or the name Yahweh? And, who will you see in heaven, Jesus, the Father, of both?

And, a new one came up in this thread: Who is the messiah, YHWH, as stated countless times, or Jesus, as stated countless times?

Those are the little things missed by those that try to deny the divinity of Christ.

I actually responded to all this but somehow it said I wasn't looged in but I know you can't post without first logging in so the system nust have "timed out" while I was typing however I will answer the questions abd deal with the rest later...

1. YAHUshuah is not YHWH... I follow no teutonic "gutt"...

2. Two separate etities, yes... separate personalites INPOSSIBLE as YAHUshuah proceeded from YHWH...

3. Inferior in almost any sense??? Well, YAHUshuah said only ABBA YHWH knew the time of His return, that shows He didn't know that... He also told the mother od Zebedee that it was not His to give seats on the left and right of Him but it was ABBA's ONLY to give...

4. YAHUshuah said, " In that day you shall ask me NOTHING, AMEIN, AMEIN, whatsoever you shall My ABBA in my name, HE WILL GIVE IT TO YOU"... so whom do you ask, the one that can give it to you or the Mediator???

5. Worship... that depends on what you call "worship"... The Apocalypse 5:14 says, " Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. " note that it says to BOTH not one... YAHUshuah had glory BEFORE He came to ha eretz per HIS own words...

6. YAHUshuah was RUACh before He became man, as a man He lived, He ate, and He bled... after which He returned to Malchut Shamayim...

7. Is the bible inspired... yep... are there mistakes??? Possibly as after all of the many "trnaliterations and translations" and man's fallibility however YAH is able to keep HIS TRUTH as it is...and why would Yahuchanan be superior to everything else??? Biased thinking perhaps??? I generally stick with what YAHUshah said, not what others said about Him... however I don't place the one of the apostles that walked with YAHUshuah above the other...

If you read ONLY those verses concerning YAHUshuah's resurrection you leave out passages of the bible correct??? That is a very "chrry picking" way of viewing the bible correct??? How many times will I find where it is said that the FATHER raised Him from the dead??? Do you know???

I Like Ephesians 1... you should read what it says...

The name "jesus" isn't superior to anything as far as I am concerned... there is no "j" in the Ibriyt language...

Who is MASHIACH??? Well, who sent whom??? Ask yourself...

I'll stop there... I can go tit fror tat with the verses later...

justalex
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#18
Alex, why write to an English audience with words in-part from another language?
Peace in knowing Y'shu(Yeshu)/Jesus
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#19
whathell Wrote:Alex, why write to an English audience with words in-part from another language?


You maen other than because I can??? It's yo make YOU step out of that "NIV" comfort zone...Mais uma vez, que poderia ser apenas porque me agrade outras l?nguas... LOL... I'll let you guess about it though...

Apparently it's too scaaawwy out there for whathell... ROTFLMLBO...

justalex
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#20
Andrej...

I do understand that most of you are probably "Aramaic Primacists" however you'd better look at the Greek word for "one" in this passage...

"I and my Father are one."
John 10:30

I know someone else that tried the same thing just what, about a week or two ago...

justalex
Reply
#21
justalex Wrote:If you read ONLY those verses concerning YAHUshuah's resurrection you leave out passages of the bible correct??? That is a very "chrry picking" way of viewing the bible correct??? How many times will I find where it is said that the FATHER raised Him from the dead??? Do you know???
Well, this is a bit of a problem for someone with your view. You said the words of Christ are more than what others said about him. You also say the Father is God, but Jesus is not God.
This would make us understand it like this:

Jesus saying he will resurrect himself:
John 2:19-21
John 10:17-18

The Bible saying God will/has resurrected him:
Acts 2:24, 32
Acts 3:15
Acts 4:10
Acts 5:30
Acts 10:40
Acts 13:30
Acts 13:33-34
Acts 13:37
Acts 17:30-31
Romans 4:24
Romans 6:4
Romans 10:9
1 Corinthians 6:14
1 Corinthians 15:15
2 Corinthians 4:14
Galatians 1:1
Ephesians 1:20
Colossians 2:12
1 Thesselonians 1:10
Hebrews 11:19
1 Peter 1:21

As always, the Spirit also gets a chance:
Romans 8:11
1 Peter 3:18

As to saying Jesus' words are superior to the apostles is to deny Jesus taught we should follow the apostles:
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Mat 16:18-19 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Also read Matthew 10:19,20; 28:18-20; John 14:26; 16:13; 2 Timothy 3:16,17; Acts 1:5,8; 2:4,33; 2 Peter 3:2

justalex Wrote:I Like Ephesians 1... you should read what it says...
i like it too. i also like John 14:9, Colosians 2:9, and all the rest of the Bible.
justalex Wrote:The name "jesus" isn't superior to anything as far as I am concerned... there is no "j" in the Ibriyt language...
Now, i really thought you are concerned with solving issues, not with creating new ones all the time. If you believe that the exact sound of his name matters, then how do you deal with the fact that there are millions of people called Jesus, Yahsuha, Joshuah, even Yehoshuah? When i call on the name of Jesus, do i also call on these? And, how do you deal with the fact that the greek speaking Christians always said Iesus? Even if the NT was written in aramaic, there were still a lot of gentile christians in the first century. They said Iesus. The realization who he is is far more important than how to exactly pronounce his name.

But, before you answer to that, first answer my original question. Wich name is superior, the name "YAHUshuah"(As you put it) or the name Yahweh? And, who will you see in heaven, YAHUshuah, the Father, of both?

justalex Wrote:Who is MASHIACH??? Well, who sent whom??? Ask yourself...
As i said before, i do not say that Jesus is the Father in every sense of the word, but he is the highest revelation of the father a man can ever percieve (Col. 2:9). So, to us, in our understanding, he is the Father (John 14:9). He is the mediator. But, naturally, the Son was sent from the Father. Yet, in other words, the Father was manifest among us (Heb. 1:3; Col. 2:9; and the entire new testament).

Who sent whom, interesting question:
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Now, who sent the Holy Spirit? Jesus said he'd do it, but he also said the Father would...
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.
Reply
#22
justalex Wrote:Andrej...

I do understand that most of you are probably "Aramaic Primacists" however you'd better look at the Greek word for "one" in this passage...

"I and my Father are one."
John 10:30
i am not a peshitta primacist, but what i read here made me an agnostic concerning the topic. i will know what to believe when i find, or write, a book that deals with the topic in a sufficient manner. i have not yet seen such a book.

i do not necessarily disagree with your view on the word "one" in this case. But i shall point out that it is completely irrelevant how we should interpret it, as you used the same word, and thus the same interpretations applys to whatever you said.
i merely stated that you made a statement that directly contradicts scripture, that is Jesus and the Father are not one, whereas he said they are. In what sense they are one does not matter for my argument. My argument is not that they are one in any sense, but that you said they are not one. If you can interpret Jesus' "one" to mean anything you want, i can also interpret your "one" to mean anything i want. In the end, you used the same word, "one", inseparable form Jesus' word "one", at least from my point of view (without further clarification, which you had not given).

Concerning the greek, though i believe it to be a numeral "one" in general, i agree that Jesus did not try to express that he is the Father. Just that he is the perfect revelation of the invisible, unknowable father.
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.
Reply
#23
Andrej Wrote:
justalex Wrote:Andrej...

I do understand that most of you are probably "Aramaic Primacists" however you'd better look at the Greek word for "one" in this passage...

"I and my Father are one."
John 10:30
i am not a peshitta primacist, but what i read here made me an agnostic concerning the topic. i will know what to believe when i find, or write, a book that deals with the topic in a sufficient manner. i have not yet seen such a book.

i do not necessarily disagree with your view on the word "one" in this case. But i shall point out that it is completely irrelevant how we should interpret it, as you used the same word, and thus the same interpretations applys to whatever you said.
i merely stated that you made a statement that directly contradicts scripture, that is Jesus and the Father are not one, whereas he said they are. In what sense they are one does not matter for my argument. My argument is not that they are one in any sense, but that you said they are not one. If you can interpret Jesus' "one" to mean anything you want, i can also interpret your "one" to mean anything i want. In the end, you used the same word, "one", inseparable form Jesus' word "one", at least from my point of view (without further clarification, which you had not given).

Concerning the greek, though i believe it to be a numeral "one" in general, i agree that Jesus did not try to express that he is the Father. Just that he is the perfect revelation of the invisible, unknowable father.


Andrej,

It really doesn't matter whether or not you agree with me... it's the DBR YHWH with which I agree And you ideology that YAHUshuah is the perfect "revelation" of ABBA YHWH is just that, your's...

I made NO statement contradicting any scripture... that YOU particularly say I did, is meaningless to me, as I have given all the evidence needed to support what was originally said...

justalex
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#24
Shlama,

My brother's in Mashiyach, as you all can see, it is fruitless to converse with this individual, quite frankly pointless unfortunately. He calls one here "cherry picking" scriptures when he does the same thing, He states he agrees only with what the scriptures say of YHWH, but his posts like the very first one that started this thread disagree with what he thinks they say entirely, those that are truly discerned and led by the RAUCH of YHWH can see that, all one can do at this point is pray that YHWH touch his hardened heart.

By the same token, he states that Andre has his own ideology of what the scriptures say, when again it's only what he thinks what the scriptures say as well, SMH

I know Alex,justice or whatever name you wish to go by, my opinion or anyone's opinion matters not to you, but if it really didn't then, why are you here responding? Ask yourself that.

WhatHell, he writes the way he does in an attempt to impose his intelligence on others, and that is all, all things un Mashiyach like.

Remain steadfast in what we all know to be true and do not allow this individual to lead you to believe otherwise.

Shlama wBurkate

Sonero
Reply
#25
soneroboricua Wrote:Shlama,

My brother's in Mashiyach, as you all can see, it is fruitless to converse with this individual, quite frankly pointless unfortunately. He calls one here "cherry picking" scriptures when he does the same thing, He states he agrees only with what the scriptures say of YHWH, but his posts like the very first one that started this thread disagree with what he thinks they say entirely, those that are truly discerned and led by the RAUCH of YHWH can see that, all one can do at this point is pray that YHWH touch his hardened heart.

By the same token, he states that Andre has his own ideology of what the scriptures say, when again it's only what he thinks what the scriptures say as well, SMH

I know Alex,justice or whatever name you wish to go by, my opinion or anyone's opinion matters not to you, but if it really didn't then, why are you here responding? Ask yourself that.

WhatHell, he writes the way he does in an attempt to impose his intelligence on others, and that is all, all things un Mashiyach like.

Remain steadfast in what we all know to be true and do not allow this individual to lead you to believe otherwise.

Shlama wBurkate

Sonero

sniff, sniff... your, sniff piety is just so... so... FAKE... get off your soapbox son...

The scriptures I use are always in line with other scriptures that I use... if you don't know the difference in that, it's YOUR lack not my own...

My heart is hard??? ROTFLMLBO... and you say this because I don't seek the approval of man as you do??? LOL... smh some more then sonero because you heart must be the hardest diamond by now as you receive not the TRUTH but seek ONLY to attempt to prove ME wrong... LOL... that is the reason for you copying threads from other sites and bringing them here...ROTFLMLBO

Who are you to say "who" is led by RUACH YHWH??? You certainly cannot sit in judgement of me son as I am NOT your servant but YHWH's and as the katub says, "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for ELOHIYM is able to make him stand."

Why do I respond??? Well, when you stop copying threads posted in other sites here, and being guilty of CEThER talking about "this individual" I will stop responding... otherwise remember, I'm not your pinocchio, so I don't live by your rules...

To impose my intelligence on others... ROTFLMLBO... is that really why I do it or is that just ANOTHER OPINION sonero??? smh... Never attempt to "guess" at what I do as YOU are in NO position to KNOW... STUDY to SHEW THYSELF APPROVED... That is my mantra where that is concerned... perhaps you should dry his eyes and your own as if you do not understand what I post, it obviously above where you are in YAH... in other words, you're not ready...

Me??? Lead whathell??? ROTFLMLBO... nah, that's your job Gepetto... unfortunately it doesn't appear that he's getting much from it with his yiddish "yhvh" and the magically disappearing reappearing "h"... LOL...

justalex
Reply
#26
justalex Wrote:Andrej,

It really doesn't matter whether or not you agree with me...
That is exactly what i was saying in 10 different ways. again, it is not me disagreeing with you, but the Bible disagreeing with you.

If the Bible uses "one" without further clarification, and you do the same, without further clarification, than these are 100% exactly the same words. This is why you disagree with the Bible.
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.
Reply
#27
Andrej Wrote:
justalex Wrote:Andrej,

It really doesn't matter whether or not you agree with me...
That is exactly what i was saying in 10 different ways. again, it is not me disagreeing with you, but the Bible disagreeing with you.

If the Bible uses "one" without further clarification, and you do the same, without further clarification, than these are 100% exactly the same words. This is why you disagree with the Bible.

Actually I DON'T disagree with the "bible" as the "bible" never says YAHUshuah is YHWH... and that is the point whether or not you wish to agree with that is your preroggative however your "revelation" that YAHushuah is the "closest realization" of ABBA YHWH directly contradicts you saying that He is ABBA YHWH...

I always ask simple questions... to whom did YAHUshuah pray in ha Gan Gethsamane??? To whom did He pray when He fed the multitude??? to whom did He commit His ruach when He was on the "tree"???

There is no way for you to say to Himself in these instances, so the only LOGICAL answer is that is was to ABBA YHWH... the same one that sent Him and the same one that received Him back in ha MALChUT ShAMAYIM...

justalex
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#28
Where in the bible is the word YAHUShuah written? The closest there is to that is the name for Joshua in the Old Testament, which transliterates to the tune of "Yehoshuah". That is all it is, a name for what the KJV transliterates as Joshua, the son of Nun in Numbers 11:28. Anything more than that is the imaginations of man.
Reply
#29
" Anything more than that is the imaginations of man."

I am glad that I am not the only one who has noticed this error, thank you Jerry for bringing this to the forefront.

Shlama wBurkate


Sonero
Reply
#30
Jerry Wrote:Where in the bible is the word YAHUShuah written? The closest there is to that is the name for Joshua in the Old Testament, which transliterates to the tune of "Yehoshuah". That is all it is, a name for what the KJV transliterates as Joshua, the son of Nun in Numbers 11:28. Anything more than that is the imaginations of man.

I suppose that is according to YOU then right??? It would really depend on whose transliteration you were looking at correct???

Then again, marya isn't spelled with an "h" at the end ANYWHERE not even in Aramaic transliterations. I mean, since you and the rest of the Aramaic primadonna's have your magical appearring and disappearing "h" added to the end of a word that ONLY means lord/master in Aramaic according to EVERY Aramaic lexicon EVER PUBLISHED... LOL...

Yes, please let's discuss the "imaginations of man"... let's test YOUR knowledge... ROTFLMLBO...

justalex
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