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Not feeling good about Hebrews 6:4-6
#1
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.?

Isnt that contradictory to God's nature of always forgiving one who genuinely chooses to repent? A Christian who abandons his faith and realizes his mistake 5 years later cannot come back? What about the parable of the prodigal son?

Im not trying to cause any controversy on this forum, its just that this place appears to be chief among Bible forums and I am wondering if anybody else is as scared as I of what this passage APPEARS to be saying.
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#2
rungold315 Wrote:For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.?

Isnt that contradictory to God's nature of always forgiving one who genuinely chooses to repent? A Christian who abandons his faith and realizes his mistake 5 years later cannot come back? What about the parable of the prodigal son?

Im not trying to cause any controversy on this forum, its just that this place appears to be chief among Bible forums and I am wondering if anybody else is as scared as I of what this passage APPEARS to be saying.

Yes it is contrary to Gods nature to be unforgiving. Dont be scared.

This verse was not written to you. It was written to jews living pre 70 AD in Jerusalem. Jerusalem was about to be destroyed and the biblical jewish nation wiped away forvever. Verse 8 is about the destruction of Jerusalem IMHO.
When we imagine this was addressed to us we and up with all sorts of problems trying to find its meaning. A person in Jerusalem who believed Christ )or paul) knew what was coming. They knew where this verse found its meaning. Thats how I see it anyway.


7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
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#3
Run gold before I answer the question that you have raised, may I ask what your theological position is?
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#4
It is as such....

Bible is the word of God, from Genesis to Revelation

YHWH is God, and Yshua is YHWH's Messiah who came to restore Israel and become a light to the different peoples of the earth. Messiah is fully man (which is why he was able to be tempted) but seeing as how his seed was given by God instead of an earthly father, he must also be a part of God too.

I definitely dont believe in 3 heavenly beings in earth as that is contradictory to God being one-therefore, the only thing I can conclude is that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a metaphor and just different titles referring to one God

Salvation is obtained through faith in Yshua which saves you, but you must also be obedient to the commandments of the Torah that apply to you today (the works dont save you, but they're evident of your faith as faith without works is dead)

To sum it up, if you dont have the works, your faith is dead and you're probably going to be one of many who pound on the door saying "Lord, lord, open the door" and be cast out into the lake of fire.

The above is simply answering your question, not condemning anbody, as I myself struggle HUGELY with my flesh every day so I never have a right to judge anybody.
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#5
Hi brother,

Thanks for your honest response. That verse in Hebrews does not suggest at all that God will not accept a sinner who comes to repentance. The verse explicitly states that if someone falls away completely from the faith then it will be difficult for them to return and that they again crucify Christ in the process. It is however very very rare for someone who falls away to come back to the faith, compare Jesus' parable about the seeds who fell on the way side etc. Some people come to Christ and fall away at different times, now be careful, drifting away and completely falling away are two separate issues.
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#6
Consider it that angels cannot be forgiven for their sins, as their acts are deliberate, completely knowing and willing to be completely evil when they deviate from God in the slightest way (as they are higher beings than we are, without being born to sin).



In as much the same way, it's a greater shame for a climber to fall from the mountain when he is near the summit. As there is only so far you can fall and still survive the landing. It is more a case of the person not being capable to repent any longer, and as such, God cannot forgive them. The same way the devil will never repent, he will never want repentance, he will never be forgiven.
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#7
rungold315 Wrote:For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.?

Isnt that contradictory to God's nature of always forgiving one who genuinely chooses to repent? A Christian who abandons his faith and realizes his mistake 5 years later cannot come back? What about the parable of the prodigal son?

Im not trying to cause any controversy on this forum, its just that this place appears to be chief among Bible forums and I am wondering if anybody else is as scared as I of what this passage APPEARS to be saying.
What i get from this verse is very different. The bible is written very carefully. Something i see here is a lot of conditions:

The passage speaks about people that:
-were once enlightened
-have tasted the heavenly gift
-have become partakers of the Holy Spirit
-have tasted the good word of God
-have tasted the powers of the age to come

Now, i don't mean to say i know exactly how to understand those qualifications (i sure thik it is well worth a veeeery deep study), but i feel quite sure when i say that very most people calling themselves christians (whatever that means to you) don't qualify here (and that those are not qualifications for salvation, but rather things that can be obtained in the spirit later on). Maybe Judas would qualify (though my own superficial interpretation of the five qualifiers does not allow that). Plus, the text seems to imply they were fully aware of their decision ("were once enlightenment"), which conflicts with what you wrote about someone that "realizes his mistake 5 years later". The point is, he was enlightened.
Then you also said that God always forgives "one who genuinely chooses to repent", although the passage does not imply Godwon't forgive, but that they cannot be "renew[ed] [...] again to repentance", which is the whole point, God cannot forgive because they cannot repent (not because he rejects their repentance!). Also the passage says " crucify again for themselves the Son of God" which seems to tell me that the problem exists not with God but with the person (probably his mindset towards his glorious past in the spirit is holding back his repentance).

Basicall, the same thing i see here is also with the blasphemy issue (which basically can only exist when pride enters the heart of a person familiar to God). Read Mark 3:29,but also read John 9:41(!!!), and check back what exactly they were doing, and who they were. i am convinced that an unbeliever cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and i am also convinced that you can only blaspheme the holy spirit when you are irreparably poisonned with pride. We have to get to the bottom of why Jesus disliked the scribes and pharisees so much, whereas he could show the greatest compassion to the greatest sinners. Only scribes and pharisees (and people just like them) can blaspheme the Holy Spirit. And again, their pride may hold them away from repentance, which, inmy opinion, is the true reason they cannot be forgiven. The problem is with them, not with God.
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#8
Darran Wrote:God cannot forgive them. .

As far as I knew god can do whatever he wants.
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#9
judge Wrote:
Darran Wrote:God cannot forgive them. .

As far as I knew god can do whatever he wants.
He can. But he has given us a free will to do what we like. Out of respect he doesn't break this promise, if someone does not want repentance he will never give them it. Don't be scandalised. Read my comment more as "it is not attainable from him" than as me imposing a limitation on God, which is not my purpose, mainly underlining something that He will never do.



Be wary about personal interpretation.
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