"MarYah deception" ???

[gbausc]

Shlama Jeremy,

You wrote:

YHWH is His Name, however that should be pronounced, but Marya is not His Name, but instead, perhaps like Adon YHWH from the Hebrew, but let's be clear that it is not His Name, which is YHWH.

"Marya" is as much His Name as is YHWH. YHWH is not Hebrew, it is the English transliteration of the Hebrew consonants only. It is therefore an English representation of the Hebrew Name.

maybe you don't understand what i was saying: Marya is not the Name given by YHWH. transliteration aside, if you think otherwise, i don't know what to say. hopefully that is not what you meant, because at best, if Marya is intended to be read as you are promoting, then it means Master Yah, not YHWH exclusively. what it would be like is akin to you being named Sir David / MarDavid, right? i know a person actually named Sir, but YHWH's Name is not MarYa in the sense as that being what He gave to the people, which was the transliterated equivalent of YHWH. i hope that clarifies the issue.

"Marya" at least includes the correct Aramaic vowel transliteration with the consonants, in English, and is therefore a distinct representation of the Hebrew Name hwhy, as Smith's Compendious Syriac Dictionary describes it, which I here reproduce using Estrangela characters instead of Serto:
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rm[/font] (pronounced ?Marey? with vowels) abs. and constr. , emph. [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rm [/font](read ?Mara? with vowels) and [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yrm [/font](read ?Marya? with vowels)

i appreciate your detailed response, but i've explained what i meant above. Marya is, at best, an abbrievated form of YHWH, or else it would be MarYahweh in the full, right?

The latter form is used only of THE LORD God, and in the Peshitta Version of The O.T. represents the Tetragrammaton.
Paul Younan has given Orham's Dictionary definition, and Jennings has the same definition as Smith's.

once i find incontrovertable evidence to that, i will happily acquiesce to the idea. as for now, i'm open to wondering.

You are simply wrong, Jeremy, when you assert "Maryay" the plural form, used in Acts 16 and elsewhere of humans, to be "Marya".

i would retrack your statement here, David, as i've never suggested that Maryay in Acts 16 is Marya. i'm not sure where you got this, but you're simply wrong. i don't mind friendly disagreements and discussion over the meaning of a word, as it serves to sharpen us, but i didn't ever assert what you've suggested, so please don't wrongfully accuse me of such. maybe you're thinking of someone else?

That is ignorance, as any Peshitta edition with Estrangela or Serto script will show. They have Syame marks (two horizontally aligned dots) placed over all plural nouns and adjectives. The vowels are also different in the plural form.

again, i don't know why you're stating this, as i've not suggested otherwise. i understand the purpose of syame marks, and even though they could be argued in certain places, i've never suggested anything about Acts 16, so be sure your facts are correct before "correcting" someone, please.

"Marya" is never used to identify anyone but hwhy.

well, the verdict is still out for me, but i'm always open to new evidence to the contrary.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Shlama Jeremy,

You wrote:

YHWH is His Name, however that should be pronounced, but Marya is not His Name, but instead, perhaps like Adon YHWH from the Hebrew, but let's be clear that it is not His Name, which is YHWH.

"Marya" is as much His Name as is YHWH. YHWH is not Hebrew, it is the English transliteration of the Hebrew consonants only. It is therefore an English representation of the Hebrew Name.

maybe you don't understand what i was saying: Marya is not the Name given by YHWH. transliteration aside, if you think otherwise, i don't know what to say. hopefully that is not what you meant, because at best, if Marya is intended to be read as you are promoting, then it means Master Yah, not YHWH exclusively. what it would be like is akin to you being named Sir David / MarDavid, right? i know a person actually named Sir, but YHWH's Name is not MarYa in the sense as that being what He gave to the people, which was the transliterated equivalent of YHWH. i hope that clarifies the issue.

"Marya" at least includes the correct Aramaic vowel transliteration with the consonants, in English, and is therefore a distinct representation of the Hebrew Name hwhy, as Smith's Compendious Syriac Dictionary describes it, which I here reproduce using Estrangela characters instead of Serto:
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rm[/font] (pronounced ?Marey? with vowels) abs. and constr. , emph. [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rm [/font](read ?Mara? with vowels) and [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yrm [/font](read ?Marya? with vowels)

i appreciate your detailed response, but i've explained what i meant above. Marya is, at best, an abbrievated form of YHWH, or else it would be MarYahweh in the full, right?

The latter form is used only of THE LORD God, and in the Peshitta Version of The O.T. represents the Tetragrammaton.
Paul Younan has given Orham's Dictionary definition, and Jennings has the same definition as Smith's.

once i find incontrovertable evidence to that, i will happily acquiesce to the idea. as for now, i'm open to wondering.

You are simply wrong, Jeremy, when you assert "Maryay" the plural form, used in Acts 16 and elsewhere of humans, to be "Marya".

i would retrack your statement here, David, as i've never suggested that Maryay in Acts 16 is Marya. i'm not sure where you got this, but you're simply wrong. i don't mind friendly disagreements and discussion over the meaning of a word, as it serves to sharpen us, but i didn't ever assert what you've suggested, so please don't wrongfully accuse me of such. maybe you're thinking of someone else?

That is ignorance, as any Peshitta edition with Estrangela or Serto script will show. They have Syame marks (two horizontally aligned dots) placed over all plural nouns and adjectives. The vowels are also different in the plural form.

again, i don't know why you're stating this, as i've not suggested otherwise. i understand the purpose of syame marks, and even though they could be argued in certain places, i've never suggested anything about Acts 16, so be sure your facts are correct before "correcting" someone, please.

"Marya" is never used to identify anyone but hwhy.

well, the verdict is still out for me, but i'm always open to new evidence to the contrary.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Shlama Jeremy,

Sorry for confusing you with someone else. I think it was Justalex.
You did write this however:

i was suggesting that the AN"K's usage of the "spelling" of MARYA / MARYE' could be evidence that it should have been understood singularly, in the Aramaic, as well. of course we can't totally know, but it is interesting that the LXX chose to render it singular, instead of plural.

Here you suggest MARYE may be singular- MARYA, which is the same thing Justalex wrote of Acts 16, so I see no difference where in scripture this argument is used. The plural form is marked and voweled as plural in Isaiah as it is in Acts 16.

I wrote:

"Marya" is as much His Name as is YHWH.

Actually, neither Marya nor YHWH is His Name. Both are English transliterations of Hebrew and Aramaic Names. "Marya" represents the Aramaic Name [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yrm [/font], which represents hwhy.
You are splitting hairs, I think, in denying Marya [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yrm [/font] represents YHWH hwhy, if you are insisting that the Peshitta must use the Hebrew form hwhy in order to contain God's Name. The Jews of the 1st century did not speak Hebrew in public; it was reserved for the synagogue in the reading of scripture, and even then required a Targum in Aramaic for the people to understand. Yeshua's preaching and teaching was Aramaic, or the people would not have understood, hence He would have not spoken The Sacred Name in Hebrew, but the Aramaic equivalent "Marya".

"Marya" is not simply "Mara". It is more; it is like many compound names in Aramaic: "Elya" (Elijah), "Uurmya" (Jeremiah), "Eshaya" (Isaiah) , Zkarya (Zechariah), etc., all of which end with ?ya? and come from Hebrew names ending with ?YAH?- the Hebrew abbreviated form of YHWH. The distinctive feature of [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0yrm [/font] is that it is not a name ever applied to a human before Yeshua Netsari, but used only of YHWH in the Aramaic language.
?Marya? then = ?Mar YAH? (Aramaic has ?YAH? also in the Peshitta OT., but compound names use YA as an ending instead.)

Blessings,

Dave