12-01-2010, 03:38 AM
Rafa Wrote:Alex, your Sabellian understanding of the Trinity is hindering your understanding...
Here :
Quote:The early Christians were quick to spot new heresies. In the third century, Sabellius, a Libyan priest who was staying at Rome, invented a new one. He claimed there is only one person in the Godhead, so that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all one person with different "offices," rather than three persons [ QNUMA to be precise] who are one being in the Godhead, as the orthodox position holds.
Of course, people immediately recognized that Sabellius?s teaching contradicted the historic faith of the Church, and he was quickly excommunicated. His heresy became known as Sabellianism, Modalism, and Patripassianism. It was called Sabellianism after its founder, Modalism after the three modes or roles which it claimed the one person of the Trinity occupied, and Patripassianism after its implication that the person of the Father (Pater-) suffered (-passion) on the cross when Jesus died.
Because Modalism asserts that there is only one person in the Godhead, it makes nonsense of passages which show Jesus talking to his Father (e.g., John 17), or declaring he is going to be with the Father (John 14:12, 28, 16:10) One role of a person cannot go to be with another role of that person, or say that the two of them will send the Holy Spirit while they remain in heaven (John 14:16-17, 26, 15:26, 16:13?15; Acts 2:32?33).
Modalism quickly died out; it was too contrary to the ancient Christian faith to survive for long. Unfortunately, it was reintroduced in the early twentieth century in the new Pentecostal movement. In its new form, Modalism is often referred to as Jesus Only theology since it claims that Jesus is the only person in the Godhead and that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are merely names, modes, or roles of Jesus. Today the United Pentecostal Church, as well as numerous smaller groups which call themselves "apostolic churches," teach the Jesus Only doctrine. Through the Word Faith movement, it has begun to infect traditionally Trinitarian Pentecostalism. Ironically, Trinity Broadcasting Network, operated by Word Faith preacher Paul Crouch, has given a television voice to many of these Jesus Only preachers (who are, of course, militantly anti-Trinitarian).
In the quotes that follow, the Fathers? forceful rejection of Modalism is shown not only when they condemn it by name, but also by passages in which they speak of one person of the Trinity being with another, being sent from another, or speaking to another.
Sabellianism was doctrine adhered to by a sect of the Montanists.[that is false teachers of early Christendom who claimed to receive new revelations]
* Cyprian wrote of them "How, when God the Father is not known--nay, is even blasphemed--can they who among the heretics are said to be baptized in the name of Christ only, be judged to have obtained the remission of sins?" (Cyprian, c. 250, W, 5.383,484)
* In 225 Hippolytus spoke of them saying "Some of them assent to the heresy of the Noetians, affirming the Father Himself is the Son."
* Victorinus had this to say of them "Some had doubts about the baptism of those who appeared to recognize the same Father with the Son with us, yet who received the new prophets."
Sabellianism was also referred to by the following Church fathers:
* Dionysius (c. 200-265) wrote "Those baptized in the name of three persons...though baptized by heretics..shall not be rebaptized. But those converted from other heresies shall be perfected by the baptism of the Holy Church." (St. Dionysius, Letters and Treatises,p.54).
* "Sabellius...blasphemes in saying that the Son Himself is the Father and vice versa." (Dionysius of Rome, c.264,W, 6.365)
Sabellianism teaching of Modalism and singular name baptism was also accompanied by glossolalia and prophecy among the abovementioned sect of Montanists. [Sound familiar?]
Saint Irenaeus :
"It was not angels, therefore, who made us nor who formed us, neither had angels power to make an image of God, nor anyone else. . . . For God did not stand in need of these in order to accomplish what he had himself determined with himself beforehand should be done, as if he did not possess his own hands. For with him [the Father] were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, he made all things, to whom also he speaks, saying, ?Let us make man in our image and likeness? [Gen. 1:26]" (Against Heresies 4:20:1 [A.D. 189] emphasis added).
Gregory the Wonderworker :
"But some treat the Holy Trinity in an awful manner, when they confidently assert that there are not three persons, and introduce (the idea of) a person devoid of subsistence. Wherefore we clear ourselves of Sabellius, who says that the Father and the Son are the same [person]. . . . We forswear this, because we believe that three persons?namely, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?are declared to possess the one Godhead: for the one divinity showing itself forth according to nature in the Trinity establishes the oneness of the nature" (A Sectional Confession of Faith 8 [A.D. 262]).
"But if they say, ?How can there be three persons, and how but one divinity?? we shall make this reply: That there are indeed three persons, inasmuch as there is one person of God the Father, and one of the Lord the Son, and one of the Holy Spirit; and yet that there is but one divinity, inasmuch as . . . there is one substance in the Trinity" (ibid., 14).
Hermas :
"The Son of God is older than all his creation, so that he became the Father?s adviser in his creation. Therefore also he is ancient" (The Shepherd 12 [A.D. 80]).
Saint Polycarp of Smyrna :
"I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, with whom, to you and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 14 [A.D. 155] emphasis added).
Saint Athanasius :
"They [the Father and the Son] are one, not as one thing now divided into two, but really constituting only one, nor as one thing twice named, so that the same becomes at one time the Father and at another his own Son. This latter is what Sabellius held, and he was judged a heretic. On the contrary, they are two, because the Father is Father and is not his own Son, and the Son is Son and not his own Father" (Discourses Against the Arians 3:4 [A.D. 360]).
It has also been correctly noted that this Sabellian understanding of the Godhead was one of the reasons for the rise of the Arians (interestingly). That is exactly what I have seen in my personal experience.
Rafa,
Your opinion or labeling of me does absolutely nothing to answer the query I posed. Also, posting everything you can find about the early church means nothing as I have volumes of it right here on my book shelf.
Thank you for your reply however, you still have not posted any scripture that explains how "Jesus" could commit his spirit into His own hands, (not limiting YAH, however,that is what "Jesus" said. Why did "Jesus" say He had finished the work The FATHER had gave Him to do. Why "Jesus" said He could only do the things He had seen the FATHER do and say the things He had heard the FATHER say.
There are many more instances that show a separation h0wever, I leave you with this one:
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as {WE} are.
There is no mistaking what "Jesus" said there is there with the "WE"? And there is no way "Jesus" meant the disciples would be "one" person either is there but on ONE accord, with ONE purpose. Just read all of "John" 17.
justalex