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"I AM" Exodus 3.14 and Jhon 8:24/8:58
#1
Shalom to all friends of the forum.

I wonder if "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 is the same "I AM" of John 8:24 / 8:58 in Aramaic.

Still, how can I get the Torah in Aramaic?


Alexandre Riveira
brazil
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#2
Peshitta Tanakh contains [font="Estrangelo (V1.1)"]hyh0 r40 hyh0[/font] ?[ehyeh-asher-ehyeh] exactly as the Hebrew scriptures have it.
Check out the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon to view Peshitta Tanakh online.
Navigate through these items to find it: Search the CAL textual databases ? Text Browse ? Syriac
Scroll down to find P Gn to P 2Ch. Also found there are the 22 Peshitta books as well as the 5 Peshitto books 2 Peteter, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, Revelation as well as the fragmented Old Syriac texts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and other miscellaneous texts.
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#3
Tanks Aaron.

Aramaic "I AM" Jhon 8:24/8:58 is equal to Exodus 3.14 ?


Alexandre Riveira
brazil
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#4
In Aramaic 'I Am' is 'Ena na'

This means exactly what it is ''I am" so, it is not the same as Exodus 3:14.

However, you will find some aramists, who claim that "I am", is a shorter form of 'I am who I am' (exodus 3:14) depending on the context.

I can't say they're wrong, but in many cases, the former blind man also said: "I am!" (he) (John 9:9)

So; if "Ena na" in Aramaic is a divine saying, I cannot exactly understand if or whether the blind man considered to be devine. (Of course not).

Just my personal 2 cents.
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#5
Distazo, tanks for your "2 cents"
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#6
Here's the complete list of 182 verses in which [font="Estrangelo (V1.1)"]0yrm 0n0 0n0[/font]??[ena na marya] (I AM YHWH) appears:
Gen15:7 Gen28:13 Exd6:2 Exd6:6 Exd6:7 Exd6:29 Exd7:5 Exd7:17 Exd8:18 Exd10:2 Exd14:4 Exd14:18 Exd15:26 Exd16:12 Exd20:2 Exd20:5 Exd29:46 Exd31:13 Lev11:44 Lev11:45 Lev18:2 Lev18:4 Lev18:5 Lev18:6 Lev18:21 Lev18:30 Lev19:2 Lev19:3 Lev19:4 Lev19:10 Lev19:12 Lev19:14 Lev19:16 Lev19:18 Lev19:25 Lev19:28 Lev19:30 Lev19:31 Lev19:32 Lev19:34 Lev19:36 Lev19:37 Lev20:7 Lev20:8 Lev20:24 Lev20:26 Lev21:8 Lev21:12 Lev21:15 Lev21:23 Lev22:2 Lev22:3 Lev22:8 Lev22:9 Lev22:16 Lev22:30 Lev22:31 Lev22:32 Lev22:33 Lev23:22 Lev23:43 Lev24:22 Lev25:17 Lev25:38 Lev25:55 Lev26:1 Lev26:2 Lev26:13 Lev26:45 Num3:13 Num3:41 Num3:45 Num10:10 Num15:41 Num35:34 Deu5:6 Deu5:9 Deu29:5 Jdg6:10 1Ki20:13 1Ki20:28 Isa41:4 Isa41:13 Isa42:8 Isa43:3 Isa43:11 Isa43:15 Isa44:24 Isa45:3 Isa45:5 Isa45:6 Isa45:7 Isa45:8 Isa45:18 Isa45:19 Isa45:21 Isa45:22 Isa49:23 Isa49:26 Isa51:15 Isa60:16 Isa61:8 Jer9:23 Jer24:7 Jer32:27 Eze5:13 Eze6:7 Eze6:10 Eze6:13 Eze6:14 Eze7:4 Eze7:9 Eze7:27 Eze11:10 Eze11:12 Eze12:15 Eze12:16 Eze12:20 Eze12:25 Eze13:14 Eze13:21 Eze13:23 Eze14:8 Eze15:7 Eze16:62 Eze17:21 Eze20:5 Eze20:7 Eze20:12 Eze20:19 Eze20:20 Eze20:26 Eze20:38 Eze20:42 Eze20:44 Eze21:37 Eze22:16 Eze22:22 Eze23:49 Eze24:27 Eze25:5 Eze25:7 Eze25:11 Eze25:17 Eze26:6 Eze28:22 Eze28:23 Eze28:26 Eze29:6 Eze29:9 Eze30:8 Eze30:19 Eze30:25 Eze30:26 Eze32:15 Eze33:29 Eze34:27 Eze34:30 Eze34:31 Eze35:4 Eze35:9 Eze35:12 Eze35:15 Eze36:11 Eze36:23 Eze36:24 Eze36:38 Eze37:6 Eze37:13 Eze37:14 Eze37:28 Eze38:23 Eze39:6 Eze39:7 Eze39:22 Eze39:28 Hsa12:10 Hsa13:4 Joe2:27 Joe4:17 Mal3:6 Psa81:11

Here's the list of 7 verses in which [font="Estrangelo (V1.1)"]0hl0 0n0 0n0[/font]??[ena na alaha] (I AM Elohim) appears:
Gen26:24 Gen31:13 Gen46:3 Exd3:6 Isa41:10 Isa46:9 Psa46:11 Psa50:7

Here's the list of 17 verses not listed above in which [font="Estrangelo (V1.1)"]0n0 0n0[/font]??[ena na] (I AM) is used in reference to Yah:
Gen17:1 Gen35:11 Deu32:39 1Sa23:4 Isa41:14 Isa43:25 Isa44:6*2 Isa47:10 Isa48:12*2 Isa51:12 Eze12:11 Eze13:9 Eze24:24 Eze28:24 Eze29:16 Eze29:21 Eze44:28*2

Here's the list of 11 verses in which [font="Estrangelo (V1.1)"]0n0 0n0[/font]??[ena na] (I AM) is used in reference to a person:
Gen34:30 Gen45:3 Gen45:4 2Sa2:20 2Sa19:21 Eze27:3 Psa143:12 Rth3:12 Rth3:16 Rth4:4 Neh2:5

Here's the list of 4 verses in which the Hebrew equivalents, yn' yn' [ani ani] and ykn' ykn' [anokhi anokhi], can be found:
Deu32:39 Isa43:11 Isa43:25 Isa51:12

Verse numbers are shown according to the CAL Peshitta Tanakh enumeration; for conversions, see my TaNaKh Verse Enumeration Tradition Converter.
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#7
In order to see the text correctly, you need Estrangelo and SIL Ezra Hebrew from the Fonts page.
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#8
(`eh:yeh) in Hebrew Ex 3:14 is written in the form of a 1CS imperfect Qal verb.

If one were to look for its corresponding form in the Peshitta NT, it would likely be 1CS imperfect Peal. And I suspect that its match would be:

(`eh:we`) 5064. Used 9 times in the Peshitta NT, while (`eh:yeh) is used 43 times in the Hebrew OT.
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#9
Dear friends,
The verses I quoted the apostle John (8:24/8:58) to me, always indicate the divinity of the Messiah.
You can verify this in Aramaic, which the opinion of you

Tank's

Alexandre Riveira
brazil
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#10
Greetings Alexandre, yes I think you are correct that John 8:24 and a few other verses indicate the divinity of the Messiah.

On a more technical level, my opinion is that the "I-am" of the Hebrew OT is represented by (`aniy), and not the (`eh:yeh) used in Exodus 3:14. A couple examples of the Hebrew word (`aniy) in the Old Testament:

Then-he-says to-him, "I-AM the-Lord, whereof I-brought-you from-Ur-of the-Chaldeans..." - Genesis 15:7
Then-he-says, "I-AM the-Lord, God-of Abraham thy-father and-God-of Isaac..." - Genesis 28:13

And a couple of examples of the Peshitta word (`na`) in the New Testament:

"Of-myself, I-AM the-God-his of-Abraham, the-God-his of Isaac, the-God-his of-Jacob..." - Matthew 22:32
"... But thus ye-to-believe, of-myself I-AM; ye-to-die in-your-sins." - John 8:24

Regarding the (`eh:yeh) of Exodus 3:14, my take on it is "I-to-be".
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#11
Hi,

I find 0n0 and not 0n0 0n0 Jhon 8:58
Quote::tyzx Mhrb0lw tywh f
Nyn4 Ny4mx rb
fd9d .Jwkl 0n0 rm0 :Nym0
Nym0 .(w4y Jwhl
0p0k wlq4w


It is this way?

Alexandre Riveira
brazil
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#12
I don't have the fonts necessary to read your post, but I will assume it is accurate. In addition to the site Aaron listed, the Dukhrana website is also an excellent resource for the Peshitta NT source text.

I might note that John 8:58 does not use the double pronoun (enah-nah) or (denah-nah), as used in other verses; but instead ends in (enah-ithay). And where it does use (nah) in the middle of the verse, it is used in this context:

(...amiyn amiyn omar nah l:kuwn...)
"...truly, truly saying I-am to-you..."

Were one to derive a divine aspect to the message of John 8:58, it would come at the end with (enah-ithay).
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#13
Hello everyone, I'm not sure where would be the best place to post this.

My question is, why do we say YHVH/Yahweh, when in Ex. 3:14 Moses basically asks what is your name, and He says Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh/I AM THAT I AM.... That's God's own self-designation, so then why don't we use that and where did YHVH come from?

If someone could elaborate on this or direct me to some info, I would much appreciate it.
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#14
onebiblestudent Wrote:Hello everyone, I'm not sure where would be the best place to post this.

My question is, why do we say YHVH/Yahweh, when in Ex. 3:14 Moses basically asks what is your name, and He says Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh/I AM THAT I AM.... That's God's own self-designation, so then why don't we use that and where did YHVH come from?

If someone could elaborate on this or direct me to some info, I would much appreciate it.
I am not a Hebrew scholar yet (having postponed Hebrew to start learning Aramaic).

However, I have one guess for you. I would expect the statement you reference to be in "1st person". To use it except as an obvious quote of the Maker would therefore be applying it to oneself, if even unwittingly. At least until educated otherwise, I believe "YHWH" to be equivalent to the Ex. 3:14 statement but in "3rd person"...

Sort of like saying "He" instead of "I".
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#15
rramlow Wrote:
onebiblestudent Wrote:Hello everyone, I'm not sure where would be the best place to post this.

My question is, why do we say YHVH/Yahweh, when in Ex. 3:14 Moses basically asks what is your name, and He says Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh/I AM THAT I AM.... That's God's own self-designation, so then why don't we use that and where did YHVH come from?

If someone could elaborate on this or direct me to some info, I would much appreciate it.
I am not a Hebrew scholar yet (having postponed Hebrew to start learning Aramaic).

However, I have one guess for you. I would expect the statement you reference to be in "1st person". To use it except as an obvious quote of the Maker would therefore be applying it to oneself, if even unwittingly. At least until educated otherwise, I believe "YHWH" to be equivalent to the Ex. 3:14 statement but in "3rd person"...

Sort of like saying "He" instead of "I".
Maybe, but if so, how did it get to be equivalent? I would like to know more about the etymology, and I also have been wanting to learn hebrew and aramaic, I just don't have the money for the books and software to do it right.

And related to this, here's an interesting article about the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/docs/1_faq...mchugh.pdf
I don't know how much merit it has cause I don't know hebrew.

(So is there a better thread to post this question? Or should I start a new one?)
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