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1 Corinthians 10:11
#16
Shlama Khulkon:
The context of "olam/alama" is Semitic but not Greek. The use of the word both in the TaNaKh and the Peshitta New Testament must always be contextual. How are we to understand "eternal salvation"? The word "olam" is used by the Hebrew writers to mean "age" and "world" and "universe" and "eternity" and always within the context of a greater thought. The Greeks use two words because the idea of eternal things did not originate with them. Zorba uses either "cosmos" to mean "world/universe" or "aeon" to mean "age". There is no Greek word for eternity. That's why the Greek New Testament is lacking because it's not a Semitic language and can not intrinsically carry such Semitic thought. We must always rely upon the Hebrew TaNaKh and the Peshitta New Testament to relay Semitic thought.

Read John 3:16 in Aramaic and understand the context of "alama".

Shlama,
Stephen
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#17
Stephen Silver Wrote:Shlama Khulkon:
The context of "olam/alama" is a Semitic but not Greek. The use of the word both in the TaNaKh and the Peshitta New Testament must always be contextual.

Not only that, but it's use in the hebrew bible should be views through the lens of the peshitta. Particularly WRT the "eternal" nature of the shadows or OT covenants, temples and ways of life. It is clear from the peshitta that many jews 2000 years ago did not grasp the meaning (otherwise what was the need for the epistle to the hebrews?)
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#18
judge Wrote:
Stephen Silver Wrote:Shlama Khulkon:
The context of "olam/alama" is a Semitic but not Greek. The use of the word both in the TaNaKh and the Peshitta New Testament must always be contextual.

Not only that, but it's use in the hebrew bible should be views through the lens of the peshitta. Particularly WRT the "eternal" nature of the shadows or OT covenants, temples and ways of life. It is clear from the peshitta that many jews 2000 years ago did not grasp the meaning (otherwise what was the need for the epistle to the hebrews?)

Shlama Akhi Judge:
What does WRT mean. I'm nearly 60 and not as hip as I used to be. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Shlama,
Stephen
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#19
WRT =

Western
Rabulla
Theology

lame, i know, but i just couldn't help myself!!
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seriously, = "With Regards To"
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#20
Stephen Silver Wrote:Shlama Akhi Judge:
What does WRT mean. I'm nearly 60 and not as hip as I used to be. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Shlama,
Stephen
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I'm sure you still have some groove. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> I think burningone covered it (although I had though With Respect To).
I think that "eternal covenant" occurs 18 times in the hebrew bible but there is not much context to help us there, apart from Jeremiah 31. Hebrew 8:13 however seems to provide the key to know whether it means eternal or just a long time.

13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
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#21
Okay, first, let's look at the etymology of "olam." Having set foot on Hebrew soil, you're in my territory now, and I can be more clear and specific and certain than when dealing with Aramaic.
olam is from the shoresh (root) 'alam, meaning "hidden" "creation" or "world." Also has a connotation of "primitive"/"primeval." Ancient, creation, world (really, "universe" or "cosmos") and "primeval" all extend out from the meaning "hidden." All of these are considered "hidden from sight." So, it could be argued that these references are simply to a time which is "out of sight" from the present. However, there is another option for the usage of this word, which I will argue is the one always being used on covenantal occasions. That is that "eternity" is "that which is beyond sight." Especially since "sight" and "comprehension" are often used as synonymous concepts in semitic thought.
Here are the reasons I will defend this usage in these contexts:
First, simple grammatical construction. It doesn't say "be'olam" or simply "olam." Rather, it is "l'oalm" in most cases meaning "to or toward 'olam" or "'ad-'olam" meaning "until 'olam." This indicates that 'olam refers to a specific time, rather than something nebulous and generic like "a long time."
Next, "for a long time" would be meaningless in terms of a contract or covenant. I am going to make a contract with you to supply ABC product for XYZ price...for a long time. If I made this kind of proposal in the business world do you think anyone would sign? If I altered my wedding vows to fit this scheme, do you think any girl would marry me? Yeah, I can hear it now, "I betroth you to me...for a really long time." (Hosea 2:21)
Finally, the use of this term in covenants is made abundantly clear for us. I will give you two excellent examples where there ought to be no question as to the term's meaning. First, here Genesis 9:16, where God refers to His covenant with Noah as "brith 'olam" A covenant of eternity. He makes it clear by saying, in the previous verse, "lo yihyeh-od..." "there will not be another..."
Note also that "brith 'olam" is the very term used to refer to the Sabbath (Exod. 31:16), firstfruit offering (Num. 18:19), and the Aaronic priesthood (Num. 25:13). So, hypothetically, if God can go back on any of these, He can also go back on His promise to never flood the earth again.
Then, going on to the next case, let's look at Jeremiah 31:35-37. What I find fascinating is that verse 37 appeals to all of the things that are considered to be "alam" or "out of sight." creation, cessation of being (eternity/afterlife/netherworld), and the universe. This is the context of the covenant with Israel. It is not just out of our immediate sight, it is completely beyond foresight and beyond knowing. It cannot occur before "olam" which is eternity itself.
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#22
Dawid Wrote:Okay, first, let's look at the etymology of "olam." Having set foot on Hebrew soil, you're in my territory now, and I can be more clear and specific and certain than when dealing with Aramaic.
<!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile --> Ok I am all ears.

First, simple grammatical construction. It doesn't say "be'olam" or simply "olam." Rather, it is "l'oalm" in most cases meaning "to or toward 'olam" or "'ad-'olam" meaning "until 'olam." This indicates that 'olam refers to a specific time, rather than something nebulous and generic like "a long time."
Next, "for a long time" would be meaningless in terms of a contract or covenant. I am going to make a contract with you to supply ABC product for XYZ price...for a long time. If I made this kind of proposal in the business world do you think anyone would sign? If I altered my wedding vows to fit this scheme, do you think any girl would marry me? Yeah, I can hear it now, "I betroth you to me...for a really long time." (Hosea 2:21)[/quote]

An excellent point. So maybe perpetually?

Quote:Finally, the use of this term in covenants is made abundantly clear for us. I will give you two excellent examples where there ought to be no question as to the term's meaning. First, here Genesis 9:16, where God refers to His covenant with Noah as "brith 'olam" A covenant of eternity. He makes it clear by saying, in the previous verse, "lo yihyeh-od..." "there will not be another..."

Ok good point.

Quote:Note also that "brith 'olam" is the very term used to refer to the Sabbath (Exod. 31:16), firstfruit offering (Num. 18:19), and the Aaronic priesthood (Num. 25:13).

However these things stopped. They did not continue for ever.

Quote: So, hypothetically, if God can go back on any of these,


But did God "go back on any of these"? Maybe they just served their purpose and the best way, in Hebrew to indicate was to say olam?

Quote:He can also go back on His promise to never flood the earth again.
<!-- sCry --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cry.gif" alt="Cry" title="Crying" /><!-- sCry --> <!-- sConfusedhocked: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/shocked.gif" alt="Confusedhocked:" title="Shocked" /><!-- sConfusedhocked: -->

Then, going on to the next case, let's look at Jeremiah 31:35-37. What I find fascinating is that verse 37 appeals to all of the things that are considered to be "alam" or "out of sight." creation, cessation of being (eternity/afterlife/netherworld), and the universe. This is the context of the covenant with Israel. It is not just out of our immediate sight, it is completely beyond foresight and beyond knowing. It cannot occur before "olam" which is eternity itself.[/quote]

36 "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,"
declares the LORD,
"will the descendants of Israel ever cease
to be a nation before me


Couldn't it be said that the descendents of Israel did cease to be a nation?

What do you see as "these decrees"? It seems immediately to refer to the sun moon and tides.
How might we then, understand the descendents (seed) of Israel do you think?
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#23
The context is clear that Israel, the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, will not ever cease from being a nation before YHWH as long as the sun, moon, and stars remain. That is what the text says. I'll leave the rest to you.
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