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Reviewing Andrew's Translation
#1
I really like the translation. It's quite good, and the footnotes are very helpful. I'm going to have to learn Estrangela, but I'm looking forward to having the two there to compare.
The pedigree is quite good, too. In Aramaic using both 1905 and Khabouris was great. The English pedigree is also very good. Younan and Murdock. In my opinion those were, by far, the best translations available as far as readability until now. I also appreciate Bauscher, and will continue to use it, but it's not readable.
What I do find ironic is that if I laud Murdock, I get an earful. If Mr. Roth gives him credit, all I hear is "Yea and amen."
The extra features are a mixed blessing. So far I've only had a chance to look at a few of them. The article on Alma was excellent. The best of its kind that I have seen. Because I have a number of antimissionary friends, this is a big topic for me, so I've studied it a good deal. Mr. Roth was still able to bring out points that I was not familiar with, and wrap it up better than any argument I'd seen before. Brilliant work.
On the other hand, I read the article on Josephus and it was unsatisfactory to say the least. I felt that the conclusion was strained, based on partial information, and strained conjectures.

All in all, this gets a double thumbs-up from me. Very good stuff. One of a kind. The scholarly effort that went into the translation cannot be measured and I think it shows.

Shalom uvrachot,
Dawid
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#2
Did you ever find MARI a bit difficult to read? I guess its so literal, the Yoda effect comes into play. For instance, "The toy the child did pick up to play" as opposed to "The child picked up the toy to play."
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear Elohim, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. Ecc.12:13
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#3
It's not really hard to me, because I've been using Mr. Bauscher's interlinear. lol. Compared to that this is easy.
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#4
rungold315 Wrote:Did you ever find MARI a bit difficult to read? I guess its so literal, the Yoda effect comes into play. For instance, "The toy the child did pick up to play" as opposed to "The child picked up the toy to play."

Haha, I hear you rungold. Every translation serves a need of some kind. Indeed MARI makes rather awkward public reading though it is the best for intensive study, but that's what Andrew was aiming for anyway. For "readability" Magiera's translation is still my favorite but no, it's not as accurate as MARI and not translated from the correct text. I'm in no way disappointed with MARI, it's a fantastic resource for Peshitta primacy, reveals the real readings of the Peshitta (unlike other translations which are often still conformed to the Greek) and for really getting inside Yeshua's world.

But while the Peshitta itself is very elegant and a poetic pleasure to listen to it being read (even more so if one understands it), what we still lack is a translation that is suitable to be read in a "church service" so to speak. In this case while the translation must but be accurate, elegance is more important than literalism, after all the Scriptures aren't just meant to be read but also to be read aloud.

Paul has provided us with an interlinear, and Andrew has provided us with a study edition, the only kind of English translation left to do is an assembly edition.
Shalom, Shlama, Salaam & Yiasou.
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#5
When you are contrasting Peshitta translations, you should also look at Lamsa.

You can read the whole Lamsa Bible at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.onlinebibleusa.com/">http://www.onlinebibleusa.com/</a><!-- m -->
at modest cost per copyright (I think $5).

Otto
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#6
Shlama Khati Christina,

You make an interesting point. I did not necessarily intend AENT for straight liturgy reading, but on the other hand, it seems to be happening anyway.

My editor Shali just sent me this a few days ago:

Akha,

Guess what! Bill and I went to a funeral in Denver yesterday (an old guy we sometimes went to pray with at his nursing home, died) and his son used the AENT to read from during the service!

I was just elated! And to think I had a hand in that awesome thing. Hee-hee. I am positively giddy.

Shalom,
Shali

And Baruch tells me AENT was used liturgically at Pesach seders in Jerusalem.

My concern though for the next step is not so much nice flowing English hymnal stuff (although that has value) but in setting up Semitic-rooted liturgy from the Peshitta to be sung in Aramaic as Hebrew prayers are sung in shul now. We have been looking even at the Qurbana of the COE and how they do this, but at a very prelimininary level. Peshitta Siddurs, Matzors and the like though are probably inevitable.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
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#7
Andrew Gabriel Roth Wrote:Shlama Khati Christina,

You make an interesting point. I did not necessarily intend AENT for straight liturgy reading, but on the other hand, it seems to be happening anyway.

My editor Shali just sent me this a few days ago:

Akha,

Guess what! Bill and I went to a funeral in Denver yesterday (an old guy we sometimes went to pray with at his nursing home, died) and his son used the AENT to read from during the service!

I was just elated! And to think I had a hand in that awesome thing. Hee-hee. I am positively giddy.

Shalom,
Shali

And Baruch tells me AENT was used liturgically at Pesach seders in Jerusalem.

This cool <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin --> , glad to see that the Netzarim are already starting to make use of the Peshitta liturgically and in Jerusalem during Pesach, awesome <!-- s:onfire: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/onfire.gif" alt=":onfire:" title="On Fire" /><!-- s:onfire: -->

Andrew Gabriel Roth Wrote:My concern though for the next step is not so much nice flowing English hymnal stuff (although that has value) but in setting up Semitic-rooted liturgy from the Peshitta to be sung in Aramaic as Hebrew prayers are sung in shul now. We have been looking even at the Qurbana of the COE and how they do this, but at a very prelimininary level. Peshitta Siddurs, Matzors and the like though are probably inevitable.

Yeah the CoE's Qurbana Qadisha is probably the best starting point, as their liturgical use of the Peshitta is the oldest. Though I guess it wouldn't hurt to check out the liturgical practices of the other churches which also use the Peshitta & Aramaic for comparison.

For the nice flowing English, the Revised English Bible would make a good guide, it's IMO the most elegant English translation since the KJV, but then it's British so I guess that's to be expected.
Shalom, Shlama, Salaam & Yiasou.
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