The Orthodox Jew Wrote:Dawid Wrote:TOJ,
While it is true in one sense that Orthodoxy is not neat and tidy, compare Orthodoxy to what goes on at this website. Just look at the disagreements between me and Mr. Roth. So the simple fact that you are united in the basics of halacha makes it vastly tidier than we are. You have organization, a broad base to fall back on. You have many ideas and rituals agreed upon through at least the majority of Orthodoxy. We can't even seem to agree on that.
Not being any kind of expert on Messianic beliefs, I can't say one way or another how organized or disorganized it is. However, I have noticed
a large spectrum of belief, from people who seem like they are straight Christian, to those who are much more leaners towards Orthodoxy.
That's exactly my point. See when you go to Synagogue even if you disagree on lots of things, at least you all believe essentially in the same God, and that the the Torah and Halacha is binding upon all Jews.
Sure, you have reform Jews, and fake kabbalists like Madonna, but what would make it the same in my opinion is if someone went around calling himself an Orthodox Jew when he doesn't keep the Shabbat, etc.
Messianics are just that. Messy!
So it's kind of like pulling the short string.
You never have any idea exactly what a Messianic is going to act like or think.
Someone will introduce themselves as Messianic, and then you find out they're neo-gnostics who believe they have their own direct line to God.
It's quite exhausting really.
It lies in the fact that the vast majority of Messianicism isn't institutionalised.
There isn't an oral tradition, except for the Knanaya and perhaps some others.
( <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knanaya">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knanaya</a><!-- m --> )
Most western Messianics hear one doctrine from one speaker online, keep some of his points and throw away the rest, then go to hear a local meeting where they do the same, filtering away the things they don't agree with and we all know that everyone has their own way of filtering infomation.
It's really like a dog's breakfast.
While with Orthodox Judaism or Christianity. You are told you either in or out.
You either believe like us, and then you're welcome, or there's the door.
But probably the biggest factor is whether or not there is a place of local fellowship where they feel they belong. Because if there isn't, the pressure can get too much for some. They may end up getting sick of how disjointed they feel, so they'll reason that the Messianic movement isn't valid, and that the Christians are right about the Torah being done away with, so then they can go to Church feeling comfortable and fit in, or that they're reason that Yeishua was a false Messiah and they can become a Jew with a clean conscience.
Once you want to make a step in a certain direction it is very easy to come up with reasons.
I'm saying this, not because I want to attack anyone. But rather because I've witnessed these things happen and I wish it wasn't this chaotic.
