Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Luke 24:1
#31
Shlama Akhi Paul,

First of all thank you for responding to my question, I will at some point discuss with you a possible impact that your answer has on the primacy of aramaic.

I know you are eager to here my answer, but before I start I want you to understand that pushing my belief on your forum was never my intention, if anything I wanted highlight that I believe you have made a mistake in your translation, this might sound odd given that you are supposed to be the Aramaic " has been, drip under pressure" ( ex-pert- get it <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> ). However, my understanding is based in the greek manuscripts of which my understanding is significantly greater than my understanding of aramaic. As far as I'm concerned the dury is still out regarding the primacy of the aramaic, you make a very stong case and I may yet be convinced , however my perceived inconsistency in your translation is not helping.


Ok so we'll start with the account of Paul's trip from Philippi to Troas. First, let's look at the text as it's normally translated from the greek, followed by a literal translation:

ACTS 20:6 But we sailed away from Philippi after the Days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days joined them at Troas, where we stayed seven days. 7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. (NKJV)
Verse 6 tells us that these events took place immediately after the Feast of Unleavened Bread. A literal translation of verse 7 is somewhat different than what most English versions record:

ACTS 20:7 Now on one of the Sabbaths, at our having gathered to break bread, Paul argued with them, being about to be off on the morrow. Besides, he prolonged the word unto midnight. (CLNT)

Act 20:7 ??????? [on]????? [And] ????? [the] ??????? [one]??????? [ of the]???????????????? [Sabbaths]????????????????????[being assembled] ??????? [ of the]??????????????? [disciples]???????????? [to break] ???????????[bread], ??? ????????????? [Paul]?????????????????? [was discussing] ??????????????[with them], ???????????? [being about to]???????????????[depart] ????? [the]????????????????? [ nextday], ??????????????????[he extended] ???? [and]???????[the] ??????????[message] ?????????? [until]??????????????????????[midnight].

When we examine verse 7 in the Greek, we see that the text again literally says "one of the Sabbaths," not "first day of the week."

Luke tells us that Paul and his colleagues arrived in Troas at least five days after the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and that they stayed in Troas for seven days. Paul was on his way to Jerusalem to observe the feast of Pentecost (Acts 20:16). With an understanding of the Sabbath count to Pentecost (Lev. 23:15-16), it's clear that ??????? ??????? ???????????????? here indicates that Paul spent one of the seven weekly Sabbaths between Passover and Pentecost with the brethren in Troas. There is no significance to be found for Sunday in this passage.
( Try as you might you will not find this by googling Act 20:5-7)



For completeness I will also examine the 16th chapter of Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, which was also the target of your sarcastic wit.

I CORINTHIANS 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: 2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. (NKJV)
Is Paul speaking of a weekly collection to be set aside by the Corinthians every Sunday so a sufficient amount would be available when he arrived? Or is it possible that Paul had something else in mind?

The key to understanding this whole passage is the Greek word which begins verse 2. Thayer says is: "a preposition denoting motion or diffusion or direction from the higher to the lower . . ."

This word is frequently rendered "after" by Greek translators ("down from" = "after"). Let's look at the difference it would make to translate this word as "after" instead of "on" in this verse, as well as rendering as "one of the Sabbaths":

"On the first day of the week" ??? becomes ??? "After one of the Sabbaths"

Here is a literal rendering of the first two verses of I Corinthians 16:

I CORINTHIANS 16:1 Now concerning the collection that is for the saints, as I directed to the churches of Galatia, so also you do. 2 After one of the Sabbaths, let each one of you beside himself put something aside, storing up whatever he may have prospered, in order that when I come then collections may not be made; (literal translation)

1Co 16:1 ????????? [concerning] ?????[now] ??????? [the] ?????????????? [collection] ??????? [the one]??????? [for]????????? [the]?????????????[saints], ???????????[as] ??????????????[I directed] ????????? [to the]?????????????????????[churches] ??????? [the ones]???????????????? [of Galatia]?????????[so] ??????? [also]????????????[you] ????????????????[do].
1Co 16:2 ????????? [After]???????? [one of] ???????????????? [the Sabbaths]??????????????? [each]?????????? [of you]????????? [beside]????????????[himself]???????????? [let put something]???????????????????? [storing up] ??? [what]????[something] ???????? [-]??????????????????[he may prosper], ??????? [in order that]?????[not]?????????[when] ?????????[icome] ???????? [then]??????????????? [collections]????????????????[there may be].
We know that Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread were important to the context of Paul's instructions to the Corinthians (I Cor. 5:7-8). It is likely that Paul wrote this epistle just before the arrival of the spring Holy Days. If that was indeed the time frame of the letter, then Paul's encouragement to begin gathering a collection "after one of the Sabbaths" would have been intended to clearly tell the Corinthians WHEN to begin their offering so they would have it completed by the time Paul arrived. Once again, the most logical view of this Scripture does not include a recognition of Sunday.

CONCLUSION
If the Greek is a translation from the Aramaic, why then do we not see in the Greek translation
the greek word for "FIRST??? PROTOS ,the greek word for "DAY" in Greek is HEMERA and the greek word for ???Week??? hebdomads, if first day of the week is correct rendering from the Aramaic.
The Greek word sabbaton is used in the New Testament 68 times. FIFTY-NINE times it is translated SABBATH, but NINE times the very same word is ARBITRARILY translated "first day of the week."

Of these nine times, 6 times are in reference to the resurrection of Jesus, 2 refer to (purportedly religious) meetings that were held ( as previously discussed) and 1 refers to an incident of fasting. (who made the ruling that "fasting" must be a full 24 hours? Why can't "fasting" refer to skipping an individual meal or two?

Finally, almost the entire Christian world celebrates Sunday as their day of worship in place of the 7th-day Sabbath God instituted at creation (Gen. 2:2-3). They justify doing this because they believe that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead on this day. However, as our brief study has shown, the Greek text overwhelmingly supports another set of facts.

Shabbat Shalom

Claud.


Messages In This Thread
Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-14-2008, 02:23 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-14-2008, 04:23 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-15-2008, 01:29 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-15-2008, 02:04 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by ForHisRenown - 12-15-2008, 02:43 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-15-2008, 04:35 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Doug in CO - 12-15-2008, 06:05 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by ograabe - 12-15-2008, 08:40 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-15-2008, 10:04 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Doug in CO - 12-15-2008, 10:56 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-16-2008, 12:31 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-17-2008, 12:41 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-17-2008, 02:34 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-17-2008, 03:44 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-17-2008, 04:30 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-18-2008, 08:05 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-18-2008, 10:53 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-19-2008, 12:05 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Mike Kar - 12-19-2008, 12:39 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-19-2008, 01:24 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-19-2008, 05:00 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Paul Younan - 12-19-2008, 05:07 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-19-2008, 06:22 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-19-2008, 01:03 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Paul Younan - 12-19-2008, 05:05 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by yaaqubyl - 12-19-2008, 07:54 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-19-2008, 08:53 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by enarxe - 12-19-2008, 10:21 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Paul Younan - 12-19-2008, 10:53 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Paul Younan - 12-19-2008, 11:20 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-20-2008, 05:29 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Paul Younan - 12-20-2008, 05:30 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-23-2008, 01:58 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Thirdwoe - 12-23-2008, 07:23 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-23-2008, 12:28 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Thirdwoe - 12-23-2008, 03:08 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-24-2008, 02:01 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Paul Younan - 12-24-2008, 02:24 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Paul Younan - 12-24-2008, 02:40 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-24-2008, 02:53 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-28-2008, 10:55 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-28-2008, 11:25 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Phil - 12-29-2008, 12:13 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Phil - 12-29-2008, 01:28 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 12-29-2008, 01:56 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Paul Younan - 12-29-2008, 04:27 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Thirdwoe - 12-29-2008, 04:34 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-29-2008, 09:56 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Lars Lindgren - 12-29-2008, 12:08 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 12-30-2008, 03:54 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by abudar2000 - 12-30-2008, 10:59 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Shuvah - 01-28-2009, 02:11 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Thirdwoe - 01-29-2009, 02:25 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Dawid - 01-30-2009, 09:35 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Shuvah - 01-31-2009, 02:01 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Dawid - 01-31-2009, 02:55 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Thirdwoe - 01-31-2009, 11:29 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Shuvah - 02-02-2009, 02:28 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Shuvah - 02-02-2009, 02:53 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Mike Kar - 02-02-2009, 09:14 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Dawid - 02-02-2009, 10:33 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Dawid - 02-02-2009, 10:46 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Shuvah - 02-03-2009, 01:45 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Thirdwoe - 02-03-2009, 01:51 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Shuvah - 02-03-2009, 01:58 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Dawid - 02-03-2009, 03:28 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Dawid - 02-03-2009, 08:25 PM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 02-26-2009, 01:12 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Thirdwoe - 02-26-2009, 01:45 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 02-26-2009, 09:20 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by claud - 02-26-2009, 09:28 AM
Re: Luke 24:1 - by Stephen Silver - 02-26-2009, 05:12 PM

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)