12-19-2008, 01:03 PM
Shlama Akhi Stephen,
I am really sorry that you perceive that am using the forum to present a Shabbat morning resurrection of Messiah theory. I make no apology about the fact that this is my belief, however in the discussion of the translation, it is necessary to talk about it. I am actually trying to establish the primacy of the aramaic, from a verse that I believe has been mistranslated in the greek. your presentation of the codices was unecessary it was not something I was disputing, you clearly misunderstood what I have said.
Shlama Akhi Paul,
I freely admit the aramaic is new to me, I certainly did not make up what I said, but rather than have a good little chuckle to yourself and then write a rather belittling response why don't you explain in detail. This was the whole point of me joining this forum ie to learn. Just because I do not readilly swallow what either you or stephen have said is no reason to accuse me of pushing an agenda. If I wanted to push my own beliefs I would simply start my own forum.
With respect to your days of the week list you should check out <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.homeschoolhowtos.com/static/ChartOfTheWeek.pdf">http://www.homeschoolhowtos.com/static/ ... heWeek.pdf</a><!-- m --> "by William Mead Jones in 1886.
The point I was making to Stephen was that the counting towards sabbath method of refering to the week days was not used at the time of Yeshua.The ancient Aramaic Targum called Pseudo-Jonathan, which is dated to before the ministry of Messiah Yeshua, renders the end of Gen. 1:5 ("the first day"), as the following:
???????? ??????
...which is transliterated yoma khada (literally, "day one"). A later Aramaic Targum (Onkelos) renders the "first day" as yom khad:
?????? ????
Since Aramaic and Hebrew are pretty similar, the evidence indicates that the first day ("Sunday") was not known as khad b'shabat at the time of Messiah. Usage of this phrase evolved to later mean Sunday, and this should not be used to support understanding it that way at the time of Messiah. The more likely scenario is the one in relation to Sabbath is counting towards Pentecost.
What it boils down to is there any valid evidence that supports your assertion that a week means or is equivalent to sabbath.
If you can properly demonstrate this then your translation is correct. But it looks to me like you have simply followed the poor translation which has often been used by translators who translate from Greek manuscripts.
There are also other points I wanted bring up in the Greek which I would like to understand if they are there in the aramaic, as you will see this clearly about establishing the primacy of the Aramaic.
For example luke 23:56 to 24:1
In the greek ?????? and ???? is used, in most cases ?????? is not translated and ???? is often incorrectly translated as ???now???. Are these two equivalent words present in the Aramaic?
Shlama Akhi Stephen,
I am really sorry that you perceive that am using the forum to present a Shabbat morning resurrection of Messiah theory. I make no apology about the fact that this is my belief, however in the discussion of the translation, it is necessary to talk about it. I am actually trying to establish the primacy of the aramaic, from a verse that I believe has been mistranslated in the greek. your presentation of the codices was unecessary it was not something I was disputing, you clearly misunderstood what I have said.
Shlama Akhi Paul,
I freely admit the aramaic is new to me, I certainly did not make up what I said, but rather than have a good little chuckle to yourself and then write a rather belittling response why don't you explain in detail. This was the whole point of me joining this forum ie to learn. Just because I do not readilly swallow what either you or stephen have said is no reason to accuse me of pushing an agenda. If I wanted to push my own beliefs I would simply start my own forum.
With respect to your days of the week list you should check out <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.homeschoolhowtos.com/static/ChartOfTheWeek.pdf">http://www.homeschoolhowtos.com/static/ ... heWeek.pdf</a><!-- m --> "by William Mead Jones in 1886.
The point I was making to Stephen was that the counting towards sabbath method of refering to the week days was not used at the time of Yeshua.The ancient Aramaic Targum called Pseudo-Jonathan, which is dated to before the ministry of Messiah Yeshua, renders the end of Gen. 1:5 ("the first day"), as the following:
???????? ??????
...which is transliterated yoma khada (literally, "day one"). A later Aramaic Targum (Onkelos) renders the "first day" as yom khad:
?????? ????
Since Aramaic and Hebrew are pretty similar, the evidence indicates that the first day ("Sunday") was not known as khad b'shabat at the time of Messiah. Usage of this phrase evolved to later mean Sunday, and this should not be used to support understanding it that way at the time of Messiah. The more likely scenario is the one in relation to Sabbath is counting towards Pentecost.
What it boils down to is there any valid evidence that supports your assertion that a week means or is equivalent to sabbath.
If you can properly demonstrate this then your translation is correct. But it looks to me like you have simply followed the poor translation which has often been used by translators who translate from Greek manuscripts.
There are also other points I wanted bring up in the Greek which I would like to understand if they are there in the aramaic, as you will see this clearly about establishing the primacy of the Aramaic.
For example luke 23:56 to 24:1
In the greek ?????? and ???? is used, in most cases ?????? is not translated and ???? is often incorrectly translated as ???now???. Are these two equivalent words present in the present in the Aramaic?
Shlama w???burkate
Claud.
I am really sorry that you perceive that am using the forum to present a Shabbat morning resurrection of Messiah theory. I make no apology about the fact that this is my belief, however in the discussion of the translation, it is necessary to talk about it. I am actually trying to establish the primacy of the aramaic, from a verse that I believe has been mistranslated in the greek. your presentation of the codices was unecessary it was not something I was disputing, you clearly misunderstood what I have said.
Shlama Akhi Paul,
I freely admit the aramaic is new to me, I certainly did not make up what I said, but rather than have a good little chuckle to yourself and then write a rather belittling response why don't you explain in detail. This was the whole point of me joining this forum ie to learn. Just because I do not readilly swallow what either you or stephen have said is no reason to accuse me of pushing an agenda. If I wanted to push my own beliefs I would simply start my own forum.
With respect to your days of the week list you should check out <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.homeschoolhowtos.com/static/ChartOfTheWeek.pdf">http://www.homeschoolhowtos.com/static/ ... heWeek.pdf</a><!-- m --> "by William Mead Jones in 1886.
The point I was making to Stephen was that the counting towards sabbath method of refering to the week days was not used at the time of Yeshua.The ancient Aramaic Targum called Pseudo-Jonathan, which is dated to before the ministry of Messiah Yeshua, renders the end of Gen. 1:5 ("the first day"), as the following:
???????? ??????
...which is transliterated yoma khada (literally, "day one"). A later Aramaic Targum (Onkelos) renders the "first day" as yom khad:
?????? ????
Since Aramaic and Hebrew are pretty similar, the evidence indicates that the first day ("Sunday") was not known as khad b'shabat at the time of Messiah. Usage of this phrase evolved to later mean Sunday, and this should not be used to support understanding it that way at the time of Messiah. The more likely scenario is the one in relation to Sabbath is counting towards Pentecost.
What it boils down to is there any valid evidence that supports your assertion that a week means or is equivalent to sabbath.
If you can properly demonstrate this then your translation is correct. But it looks to me like you have simply followed the poor translation which has often been used by translators who translate from Greek manuscripts.
There are also other points I wanted bring up in the Greek which I would like to understand if they are there in the aramaic, as you will see this clearly about establishing the primacy of the Aramaic.
For example luke 23:56 to 24:1
In the greek ?????? and ???? is used, in most cases ?????? is not translated and ???? is often incorrectly translated as ???now???. Are these two equivalent words present in the Aramaic?
Shlama Akhi Stephen,
I am really sorry that you perceive that am using the forum to present a Shabbat morning resurrection of Messiah theory. I make no apology about the fact that this is my belief, however in the discussion of the translation, it is necessary to talk about it. I am actually trying to establish the primacy of the aramaic, from a verse that I believe has been mistranslated in the greek. your presentation of the codices was unecessary it was not something I was disputing, you clearly misunderstood what I have said.
Shlama Akhi Paul,
I freely admit the aramaic is new to me, I certainly did not make up what I said, but rather than have a good little chuckle to yourself and then write a rather belittling response why don't you explain in detail. This was the whole point of me joining this forum ie to learn. Just because I do not readilly swallow what either you or stephen have said is no reason to accuse me of pushing an agenda. If I wanted to push my own beliefs I would simply start my own forum.
With respect to your days of the week list you should check out <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.homeschoolhowtos.com/static/ChartOfTheWeek.pdf">http://www.homeschoolhowtos.com/static/ ... heWeek.pdf</a><!-- m --> "by William Mead Jones in 1886.
The point I was making to Stephen was that the counting towards sabbath method of refering to the week days was not used at the time of Yeshua.The ancient Aramaic Targum called Pseudo-Jonathan, which is dated to before the ministry of Messiah Yeshua, renders the end of Gen. 1:5 ("the first day"), as the following:
???????? ??????
...which is transliterated yoma khada (literally, "day one"). A later Aramaic Targum (Onkelos) renders the "first day" as yom khad:
?????? ????
Since Aramaic and Hebrew are pretty similar, the evidence indicates that the first day ("Sunday") was not known as khad b'shabat at the time of Messiah. Usage of this phrase evolved to later mean Sunday, and this should not be used to support understanding it that way at the time of Messiah. The more likely scenario is the one in relation to Sabbath is counting towards Pentecost.
What it boils down to is there any valid evidence that supports your assertion that a week means or is equivalent to sabbath.
If you can properly demonstrate this then your translation is correct. But it looks to me like you have simply followed the poor translation which has often been used by translators who translate from Greek manuscripts.
There are also other points I wanted bring up in the Greek which I would like to understand if they are there in the aramaic, as you will see this clearly about establishing the primacy of the Aramaic.
For example luke 23:56 to 24:1
In the greek ?????? and ???? is used, in most cases ?????? is not translated and ???? is often incorrectly translated as ???now???. Are these two equivalent words present in the present in the Aramaic?
Shlama w???burkate
Claud.