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Exploring Ein Sof and Yam Sof
#1
Shlama Kulkhon:
I can't help but notice the similarity between two Semitic expressions. The first is the Scriptural name Yam Sof which is roughly translated as Red Sea but can also be translated as the End Sea. The second is the Jewish mystical transcendent Ein Sof, whose English cognate is "without end". Ein Sof is mentioned in Sefer Yetzirah, the Zohar and the Bahir, Kabbalistic works which elaborate on Torah from the SOD perspective. Any thoughts?

Shlama,
Stephen
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#2
Shlama,


i'm certainly no kabbalist in the popular sense of the term, but i have been long intrigued by the concept of the Creator as the Ein Soph. i do think there is merit in Scripture for the concept to be valid, and i can personally attest that my faith has been magnified in studying out that concept.

anyhow, i never thought to equate the two as you have done. i don't know how much similarity exists between the two concepts, so perhaps someone better versed in the various mystical texts could address that part, but i did see the following parallel in what you've brought up:

Yam Suph = Sea of the End

Ein Soph = No End

OR, Ein could be understood in it's other usage: "Well," "Fountain," and as such could be said to contain something of a link:

Yam Suph = Sea of the End
Ein Soph = Well/Fountain of the End

and it should be remembered that Yah Himself is equated with a fountain in the book of YirmeYahu (Jeremiah) 17:13, although the term in that instance is not "ein."


i don't know if that is of any merit at all, but the parallel struck me, so there is my contribution.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#3
Burning one Wrote:Shlama,


i'm certainly no kabbalist in the popular sense of the term, but i have been long intrigued by the concept of the Creator as the Ein Soph. i do think there is merit in Scripture for the concept to be valid, and i can personally attest that my faith has been magnified in studying out that concept.

anyhow, i never thought to equate the two as you have done. i don't know how much similarity exists between the two concepts, so perhaps someone better versed in the various mystical texts could address that part, but i did see the following parallel in what you've brought up:

Yam Suph = Sea of the End

Ein Soph = No End

OR, Ein could be understood in it's other usage: "Well," "Fountain," and as such could be said to contain something of a link:

Yam Suph = Sea of the End
Ein Soph = Well/Fountain of the End

and it should be remembered that Yah Himself is equated with a fountain in the book of YirmeYahu (Jeremiah) 17:13, although the term in that instance is not "ein."


i don't know if that is of any merit at all, but the parallel struck me, so there is my contribution.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Shlama Akhi Jeremy:
Thanks for your input. Yam Sof (Red Sea) was where Moses led the children of Israel over dry ground to safety from Pharoah's army, which was drowned in the Red Sea. It has been supposed that the Yam Sof means Sea of Reeds but Yam Sof is in the case of Moses and Israel the end of bondage to Pharoah in all senses. This crossing of Yam Sof "out of Egypt" is literal. Now Ein Sof is the very One whom is the God of Israel. Also, he is the Light that is unapproachable but ever present. The phrase Ein Sof (without end) in Jewish mysticism stands as a reminder that Yam Sof can mean End Sea rather than to suppose that it means Sea of Reeds.
The Gulf of Aqaba is "the great deep" mentioned in Isaiah 51:10. So the children of Israel crossed the End Sea to serve the God whom is called "without end".

Shlama,
Stephen
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#4
Shlama Stephen,

great commentary! the idea-play that exists there is significant, and is similar to so many other instances in the Hebrew text of connecting circumstances & spiritual realities with the locations in which they take place.

yes, crossing the Yam Suph was definitely the "end of bondage" for the people! since the presence of Mitsrayim extended deep into the Sinai peninsula for mining purposes, you could say they were definitely still in the "borders" of their oppressors. the crossing of the sea truly opened for them a new status -- "ein soph" -- literally "no borders." they were free indeed, praise Yah!


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Stephen Silver Wrote:
Burning one Wrote:Shlama,


i'm certainly no kabbalist in the popular sense of the term, but i have been long intrigued by the concept of the Creator as the Ein Soph. i do think there is merit in Scripture for the concept to be valid, and i can personally attest that my faith has been magnified in studying out that concept.

anyhow, i never thought to equate the two as you have done. i don't know how much similarity exists between the two concepts, so perhaps someone better versed in the various mystical texts could address that part, but i did see the following parallel in what you've brought up:

Yam Suph = Sea of the End

Ein Soph = No End

OR, Ein could be understood in it's other usage: "Well," "Fountain," and as such could be said to contain something of a link:

Yam Suph = Sea of the End
Ein Soph = Well/Fountain of the End

and it should be remembered that Yah Himself is equated with a fountain in the book of YirmeYahu (Jeremiah) 17:13, although the term in that instance is not "ein."


i don't know if that is of any merit at all, but the parallel struck me, so there is my contribution.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

Shlama Akhi Jeremy:
Thanks for your input. Yam Sof (Red Sea) was where Moses led the children of Israel over dry ground to safety from Pharoah's army, which was drowned in the Red Sea. It has been supposed that the Yam Sof means Sea of Reeds but Yam Sof is in the case of Moses and Israel the end of bondage to Pharoah in all senses. This crossing of Yam Sof "out of Egypt" is literal. Now Ein Sof is the very One whom is the God of Israel. Also, he is the Light that is unapproachable but ever present. The phrase Ein Sof (without end) in Jewish mysticism stands as a reminder that Yam Sof can mean End Sea rather than to suppose that it means Sea of Reeds.
The Gulf of Aqaba is "the great deep" mentioned in Isaiah 51:10. So the children of Israel crossed the End Sea to serve the God whom is called "without end".

Shlama,
Stephen
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#5
Burning one Wrote:...Ein Soph = No End...
...OR, Ein could be understood in it's other usage: "Well," "Fountain," and as such could be said to contain something of a link...
... Ein Soph = Well/Fountain of the End

Remeber that they are spelt differently in Hebrew. The word for Eye (fountian/well) starts with the letter ayin (?? or ??) and the word for without (there is not) starts with the letter aleph (?? or ??). In modern Hebrew these letters may be pronounced the same, but they weren't in the past. Ayin sounds very different to Aleph. Just for the record.

The Assyrian Christians know how to make this sound, as do the Arabs and the Jews who used to live in the Arab lands before moving to Israel. It's only the western Jews or the Mizrachi ?????????? (Eastern) Jews who grew up in a vacuum from their heritage that don't know how to make this sound.
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#6
Unfortunately, Assyrians who are being born in the U.S. and elsewhere are losing the ability to differentiate between Aleph and Ayin (pronouncing both like Aleph.)

Another one is Tsadeh vs. Simketh~Samekh, they are pronouncing the Tsadeh like a Simketh.

The other casualty is Teth - it sounds nothing like Taw, but people are starting to pronounce it like Taw.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#7
Paul Younan Wrote:Unfortunately, Assyrians who are being born in the U.S. and elsewhere are losing the ability to differentiate between Aleph and Ayin (pronouncing both like Aleph.)

Another one is Tsadeh vs. Simketh~Samekh, they are pronouncing the Tsadeh like a Simketh.

The other casualty is Teth - it sounds nothing like Taw, but people are starting to pronounce it like Taw.

Yeah. Those letters are having the same fate with the westernized Jews as well.

Here's a question for you though akhi Paul.
It isn't just those letters with the Jews.
Also ghimel, dhaleth and thaw are always pronounced as g, d and t.
Rut instead of Ruth, etc.
How well are the beghadhkephath letters surviving with the Assyrians living in the west?

I think the best thing is for people to get educated by those who still know how to make those sounds. We have to inspire the young people to want to pronounce things correctly.
It unfortunately seems most people are happy to use a improper pronunciation.

Imagion if someone said to you.

Everyfink loz people shay makes me fink a lot about fings.
Instead of everything those people say makes me fink a lot about things.

I think if you take these languages seriously. And you're praying before the king of kings with them, it doesn't hurt to learn to speak correctly.

Respect.
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#8
dowidh Wrote:How well are the beghadhkephath letters surviving with the Assyrians living in the west?

Well, that is further complicated with tribal differences as well.

For instance, someone from the Tkhuma tribe like myself will say "Beth" for home, but from other tribes like the Tiyari they will say "Bet" (no aspiration on the Taw.) So even among the ancients there were more likely than not differences from village to city, tribe to ethnic group. Even the Persians used Aramaic as the official language of their empire, and I can only imagine how influenced their speech must have been by their native Indo-European sounds.

As unpopular as this may sound to some, really if you think about it all the Semitic stock originated somewhere in the area we now know as the Arabian Peninsula. Before the Akkadians (ancestors to Babylonians and Assyrians) invaded Mesopotamia, who was there? The Sumerians, right? (non-Semites) Sargon of Akkad's kingdom eventually was established, but really we were invaders....right?

Much later, from this same Akkadian stock came Abraham and ultimately his descendants, again invaders, went into Canaan.

So what I am trying to say is to support your statement above.....that ultimately those who stay closest to the Arabs retain the more original pronunciation. That's not to say the Arabic language doesn't have many of these same issues, it does... but nowhere near what happens if we move a bunch of them to Europe, Australia or the U.S.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#9
It makes one wonder what Zephaniah 3:9 means, when it said, "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent."

Some believe he will return us to the language that Adam and Eve spoke, others think it will be a completely new different language. Who knows.

All I know is when I was learning Hebrew, I would ask help from people who have lived in the Arab lands to help me pronounce (?? (????), ?? (??), ?? (??), ?? (??), ?? (??), ?? (??. Because I knew that when Yeishua read from the Tanach in the Synagogue, he would have pronounced these letters correctly. And if I'm going to learn to speak a language, I might as well do it properly. Wikipedia and the IPA can help out too.


For ??) ??) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_uvular_plosive">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_uvular_plosive</a><!-- m -->,
??) ??) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsade">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsade</a><!-- m -->,
??) ??) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayin">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayin</a><!-- m -->,
??) ??) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teth">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teth</a><!-- m -->,
??) ??) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heth">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heth</a><!-- m -->,
????) ??) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimel">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimel</a><!-- m -->.
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