Metatron

[Spyridon]

Who is the Angel Metatron and what is he in relation to G-d?

[Andrew Gabriel Roth]

Shlama Akhi Spyridon,

How much time do you have? Like many things in ancient Jewish-Nazarene tradition,it depends on who you talk to. To give you an idea as to how vast this topic is, I can start by saying there is even a dispute as to what the name's origin is. Some point to Greek methathronos I think--great throne of YHWH. Others prefer Aramaic matara, a watcher.

Some say Metatron is a particular angel, maybe another name for Michael, others that he is a righteous man like Enoch or in midrash maybe Elijah since both were taken up while alive. Some say Metatron is a mystical pattern like Adam Qadmon, a spiritual blueprint as it should be for humanity to re-unite with the divine. ANd lastly there are those who believe that Metatron in his template as Mediator-Redeemer must be either a type for Messiah or in fact Messiah himself.

It's all in the telling, you see.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth

[Spyridon]

Metatron is referred to as the lesser Yahweh. Maybe Orthodox Jews believe in Jesus without knowing it.

[Christina]

I think that's very likely, there are quite a few Kabbalistic teachings which are Messianic in nature.

[Spyridon]

As noted in the previous discussion, the significance of Metatron???s figure among the angelic hosts can be briefly and accurately summed up in his title N+qh hwhy, the Lesser YHWH,[1] which occurs with abbreviations several times in 3 Enoch, including passages found in Synopse ??15, ??73, and ??76. In Synopse ??15, Metatron reports to R. Ishmael that the Deity proclaimed him the junior manifestation of his name in front of all the angelic hosts: ???the Holy One, blessed be he, fashioned for me a majestic robe???and he called me, ???The Lesser YHWH??? (N+qh ywy) in the presence of his whole household in the height, as it is written, ???My name is in him.??????[2]

As with Metatron???s other offices, this designation as the lesser Tetragrammaton is closely connected with the angel???s duties and roles in the immediate presence of the Lord. Scholars have thus previously noted that the name the Lesser YHWH, attested in 3 Enoch (Synopse ??15, ??73, and ??76) is used ???as indicative of Metatron???s character of representative, vicarius, of the Godhead; it expresses a sublimation of his vice-regency[3] into a second manifestation[4] of the Deity in the name[5] YHWH.???[6]
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[Dawid]

Metatron is referred to as the lesser Yahweh. Maybe Orthodox Jews believe in Jesus without knowing it.

Then there are those who know it. Check out <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.messianicart.com/">www.messianicart.com/</a><!-- w --> . This guy is super smart and points out a lot of secrets in the Kabbala.

[Yochanan5730]

Shalom,

concerning Metatron, unless you are willing to receive that Chanokh' (Enoch) is Messiah, Metatron cannot be Messiah. the origin of Metatron stems from the Hekhaloth tradition of ancient kabbalah, known as Merkavah Mysticism. although the tradition teaches that he is the Mal'akh' YHVH (Angel of HASHEM), Metatron is a glorified re-created form of Chanokh' (Enoch) after he was taken up. this teaching is found in the 3rd Book of Enoch, also called The Hebrew Book of Enoch, already mentioned in the thread. Metatron is also called Na'ar (Young Man) in this work.

i can see how one would perceive this, or Adam Kadmon, as Mashi'ach, but it does not work in accord with the tradition, nor is it some hidden revelation of Mashi'ach within the tradition of those "whose eyes are veiled from perceiving Mashi'ach". these are autonomous doctrines of their own content and subject and can be spiritually dangerous and misleading. it speaks of such things in Kolassim (Colossians) 2:18, where it states: "...intruding into those things that they have seen..." this can pertain to Merkavah Mysticism, which is essentially meditation and astral travel/projection, and is the means by which the Hekhaloth tradition began.

even the Tal'mud states concerning Mer'kavah Mysticism:

"Our Rabbis have taught, four entered into the Pardes. They were Ben Azai, Ben Zoma, Acher, and Rabbi Akiva.
Ben Azai gazed and died.
Of him it is written, "precious in the eyes of HASHEM is the death of his pious ones" (Tehilim 116, 15).
Ben Zoma gazed, and went insane. Of him, it is written, "have you found honey, eat your share lest you become full, and vomit it up.??? (Mishlei 25, 16).
Acher cut down the plants (that is:became an apostate).
Rabbi Akiva entered, and exited in peace.???
~Hagigah 14B

also, Kolassim 2:18 can be read: "...intruding into those things they have not seen..." which means that they may have entered, or rather, intruded, but what they have seen isn't true or real.

Brakhoth b'Yeshua,
Yochanan

[Yochanan5730]

So...you think this is Merkabah mysticism? Astral projection and other such things? No wonder Andrew didn't want to talk to me about this subject. If only you knew man... I love that story of the sages who who saw this vision, the "hidden things", I also think that the legend is not entirely correct:

Rabbi Akiva entered, and exited in peace.

Well, so to speak- he supported Bar Kosiba, maybe he was slightly "kooky" after receiving this Revelation . So even poor Akiva did not entirely recover if you think about it.

it does not work in accord with the tradition, nor is it some hidden revelation of Mashi'ach within the tradition

these are autonomous doctrines of their own content and subject and can be spiritually dangerous and misleading

I am one hundred percent in agreement that if you don't follow plain scripture you shouldn't delve into this. I myself rarely read this mysticism, only enough to further apreciate the plain scripture I already understand fully and even then it's too quite a bit.

Sh'lama-Shalom Rafa <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s -->
it isn't so much that i think it is Merkavah Mysticism, i know that it is. and i do not readily support the teachings of Kabbalistic doctrine in connection with the learning of our Messiah. there are many interesting methods of interpretation that i have learned, but the application of such things do not, or rather, should not create new doctrines that would add to the splendour of the plain text. in looking into some methods of interpretation, all the neat little anomalies in the Hebrew text, when properly interpreted, point to the Messiah, or so i have found. but this is referring to method of interpretation as i have learned from my studies of kabbalah, and not of kabbalistic doctrine itself.

since there has been some mention on another thread about theological issues and doctrine, i do want to take this opportunity to express my apologies to everyone, particularly the moderators, if it seems that i am promoting any theology or doctrine. this was not my intention in explaining the things pertaining to the Kabbalah that i have posted in this thread and in the other one concerning the trinity that has been locked. it was my intention to explain that Kabbalistic doctrines, which i am very familiar with, do not coincide with Messianic/Christian teachings of our Messiah. essentially, if we can take these mystical doctrines and apply them to Messiah, then we can easily take the teachings of the Tao Te Ch'ing or other spiritualities and do likewise, simply because there seems to be something similar to an idea or concept in our doctrines concerning Messiah as related to the scriptures. and there are those who have done so. Chanokh' (Enoch), AKA Metatron in the Hekhaloth tradition, is considered an "Ascended Master" or "Christed One" by certain other occult groups, along with, and being either part of, or reincarnated as, Budha, Confucious, Elijah and others, even Jesus. <!-- s:crazy: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/crazy.gif" alt=":crazy:" title="Crazy" /><!-- s:crazy: -->

it is my intention to discourage brothers and sisters in our Lord from looking into these things for supposed "deeper" wisdom and knowledge, especially if they really do not know anything about the stuff or its tradition. i am sure some who read this would gladly call me wrong or foolish, or simply ignore me, believing they know what they're studying, but for the record, i was a legitimate student of these things (not at a Madonna class level), and not merely a book reader. so, once again, my apologies.

Many Blessings...
Yochanan