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Qashisha: Elder AND Priest?
#1
Shlama,


i stumbled across the term Kashisha in a Persian dictionary, and it gave the meaning of "priest," which caught my eye since i recall coming across the term Qashisha for "elder" in the Peshitta. so i did some searching, and i also found that Christians in Kerala, India, use Kashisha for "priest" in the Malayalam language.

it seems the etymology arises from the Hebrew Qashah, meaning "Hard / Rough," and thus has no ulitmate ministerial meaning as one would expect if it originally intended "priest," which makes me think the Persian / Malayalam presence are loanwords from Hebrew or Aramaic, not the other way around.

so my question is if Qashisha in the Peshitta or COE can also be understood in that manner, or is it limited only to the function of "elder?"


on a further note, i ran across one Hindu site in my searching that included Kashisha in its dictionary and made the claim that it arose from the Sanskrit Kashi (Shining) and Isha (Lord), for a meaning of "Shining Lord." i am assuming that is either coincidence or a case of misappropriating a connection, like some mistakenly attempt with "Jesus" stemming from "Zeus" based on loose phonetic similarities.

much thanks for any clarity!


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#2
Rafa Wrote:I don't know if you know this, but do you know that the word "priest" comes from Greek presbyteros via the Latin "Presbyter", the Greek in turn drawing from the Septuagint which itself is a literal translation of the Hebrew, and that presbyteros means literally "Elder" ? It would make sense to assume the same for Aramaic if this was the case for Hebrew (ie: that "Elder" and "Priest" are used synonymously which they are, in the Orthodox Church and the Indian ACOE). So the "Shining Lord" thing is probably coincidence.So that's all I can help you with...in the GOC "Elder" and "Priest" are the same thing in short.

I tried to post the Greek here but something happened for some reason, look it up though.

Shlama akhi Rafa,


thanks for replying, and i should have clarified that i meant "priest" as in the Semitic idea of "minister" = Kohen / Kahna.

but the point you bring up does bear upon my question excellently: if the translators chose the Greek Presbyteros "Elder" for the Hebrew Kohen "Minister," then does this, as well, alter the way we should understand "elder" in the Greek texts of the NT? see what i mean? should the elders be viewed as priests throughout the entire spectrum of Messiah's body?


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#3
Shlama akhi,


thanks again for responding. i'll check it out and see if it can answer any questions.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#4
Burning one Wrote:so my question is if Qashisha in the Peshitta or COE can also be understood in that manner, or is it limited only to the function of "elder?"
Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

The word qashisha or more commonly qasha in the Church of the East especially among the modern speakers of Christian Aramaic almost always refers to a priest. Of course it also means "elder" but in modern usage almost exclusively "priest".


Burning one Wrote:i stumbled across the term Kashisha in a Persian dictionary, and it gave the meaning of "priest," which caught my eye since i recall coming across the term Qashisha for "elder" in the Peshitta. so i did some searching, and i also found that Christians in Kerala, India, use Kashisha for "priest" in the Malayalam language.
Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy

There are Christians in Kerala, India who are members of the Church of the East so I'm not surprised that they would have that word in their lexicon.
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#5
Shlama,


thanks again Rafa, and to Mshikhaya for the information, as well. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#6
Shlama Akhan Jeremy.

Strictly speaking Qashisha (and the shortened vulgar Qasha) means "elder."

In Aramaic priest is either Kahna (biblical) or Kumra (pagan).

A COE Qasha is only referred to as a Kahna when he is on the altar. At all other times he is addressed as Qasha.

Shamasha Paul.
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#7
Paul Younan Wrote:Shlama Akhan Jeremy.

Strictly speaking Qashisha (and the shortened vulgar Qasha) means "elder."

In Aramaic priest is either Kahna (biblical) or Kumra (pagan).

A COE Qasha is only referred to as a Kahna when he is on the altar. At all other times he is addressed as Qasha.

Shamasha Paul.


Shlama, akhi Paul,

thank you for offering the further clarification!

so my pondering now is should the "elders" of the NT passages be understood as priests -- is that how the COE teaches it, or am i assuming too much? and one other question, since i'm here: Scripture speaks of those who were Levitical priests who became believers in Messiah (Acts 6:7), so could the "elders" as mentioned elsewhere be referring to strictly Levites who are now coming to faith? just wondering....


thanks for your time!


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#8
not intending to mingle in this, i just want to quickly point ot that elders could not be levites exclusively as
1) Peter (1Peter 5:1), Paul (Philemon 1:19) and John (2John 1:1; 3John 1:1) were referred to as elders (i cannot recall them to be levites)
2) Elders were ordained (Acts 14:23; Tit. 1:5)
3) Elders are equal to bishops and pastors (Acts 20:17+28) (i guess i will meet resistance here)
4) Basically, elders were old men that were leading an exemplary life and overseed the church

Also, i feel the need to point out that the NT does not make mention of the office of a priest in the NT church. That was exclusive to the Jews as far as the Bible is concerned.

Please understand i do not want to discuss this, i just wanted to drop my thoughts.
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.
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#9
Burning one Wrote:so my pondering now is should the "elders" of the NT passages be understood as priests -- is that how the COE teaches it, or am i assuming too much? and one other question, since i'm here: Scripture speaks of those who were Levitical priests who became believers in Messiah (Acts 6:7), so could the "elders" as mentioned elsewhere be referring to strictly Levites who are now coming to faith? just wondering....

Shlama Akhi Jeremy,

This touches on a bit of a deeper understanding of how the CoE interprets the role of Elders within the Church. The Levitical priesthood, like the Temple, are no longer needed by us as Christ is our eternal High Priest. As Christ's role as High Priest is after the order of Melchizedek (not dependent on ancestry or succession), so is the "priesthood" of the Qashishe.

I use the term "priesthood" again with caution, since it's not really an office within the Church of the East. They may be loosely called "Priests" in English after the custom of our western brethren, but that title is inaccurate. They are only addressed as such during very specific portions of the liturgy.

They do not hold the title of "Priest", again, that is not an office within the Church. Only Elders, whose actions during certain portions of the liturgy (specifically when involved with preparation of the "Sacrifice") are "priest-like", therefore they are addressed as "Priests" during parts of the liturgy.

In the CoE, offices are classified generally as:

Mshamshana (vulgar: Shamasha): Deacon
Qashisha (vulgar: Qasha): Elder
Episcopa: Bishop

The Patriarch being the Episcopa of Babylon.

--Shamasha Paul

PS - this has nothing to do with Levites or descendants of Aaron.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#10
It's interesting to see that 1 Peter 2:5 also has 'episcopa' but it uses the 'native' Aramaic variant.
sa-uwra (if i'm correct)
Can somebody confirm that the word for 'bishop' (episcopa) is equivalent indeed?

Peter/Cepha tells plainly that the the shepard (Jeshua) is the bishop/episcopa/sa-uwra.
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#11
Paul Younan Wrote:Qashisha (vulgar: Qasha): Elder
Episcopa: Bishop

The Patriarch being the Episcopa of Babylon.

--Shamasha Paul

PS - this has nothing to do with Levites or descendants of Aaron.

Hello akhi Paul,

I'm wondering, according to the ency's the CoE has joined the catholic church in the 19th century. How much is true of that?
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#12
A small portion of the Coe broke away and joined the Latin rite in 1552. Today they are known as the Chaldean Catholic church.

The Coe is not today nor has it ever been in communion with any other church.
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#13
Shepherd on Aramaic is raaya. There is no office in the church with that title. We refer to Mshikha as Raaya Ttawa (Good Shepherd) during the liturgy.
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#14
According to the bible peter 2-5 'And you also as living stones are built and become spiritual temples and set apart priests for the offering of spiritual sacrifices acceptable before Elohim through Yeshua' .
So all believers are priests unto God.
See also revelation 1-7 and has made us a kingdom of priests to elohim the Father'.
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#15
Rafa Wrote:Jeremy (and others who also read this thread), I posted some time ago a link to a western work incorrectly attributable to the second Bishop of Athens (that is, Saint Paul's disciple in that city Dionysios the Areopagite). This work after careful reading is actually written by a 5th century Syrian author under the influence of pagan Greek philosophy (according to many through studies on it). It does not seem orthodox and I personally would avoid it. My apologies for reccomending reading that work.


Thanks akhi and no problem!


i actually never got around to checking it out after all, so perhaps my ADD was Spirit-led this time! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

Favor to you from Messiah!


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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