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For Andrew Gabriel Roth
#67
Akhan Andrew about "catholicism" in Eastern Orthodoxy:

This definition can sound identical with that of ???Universal Church???. For instance, the Catechism of the Orthodox Church contains this question and answer:

Q. Why is the Church called Catholic, or which is the same thing, Universal?
A. Because she is not limited to any place, time, or people, but contains true believers of all places, times, and peoples.

In this sense, both concepts are identical, even though the early Church use of ???catholic Church??? was usually reserved for the manifestation of the pre-eternal Church in space and time. The problem is that ???Universal / Catholic Church??? is mainly used to refer to all believers now alive on earth. This is especially usual in Roman Catholic terminology (and theology), both for ???Catholic Church??? and ???Universal Church???.

Hence, the mystery of the Church is the mystery of Christ himself and the Eucharistic gathering is what constitutes and manifests the Church. In the Eucharist, we experience an intersection of the eternal ???lamb slaughtered from the foundation of the world??? and our temporal present. The very institution of the Eucharist makes the connection, indeed the identity Eucharist-Church obvious: ???this is my body??? refers to both interchangeably.

In 1 Corinthians 11, a chapter entirely dedicated to the Eucharistic life of ???the Church of God that is at Corinthb???, we find this
significant expression: ???when you come together as [a] Church???. In other words, it is the gathering of the people of God to celebrate the Lord???s Supper that makes the Church be ??? in the sense of a manifestation of the eschatological Church and Lamb. It is the same Holy Spirit who is called upon to manifest the Christ, both in the waters of Jordan and in the Eucharistic assembly.

In the liturgy of St. Basil, we pray:

That thy Holy Spirit may come upon us and upon these gifts here set forth, and bless them and hallow them and show this bread to be itself the precious Body of Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, and this cup to be itself the precious Blood of Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ???

We now understand why St. Paul uses the expression ???the whole Church??? (o[lhj th/j evkklhsi,aj) to refer to the local Church. The local Church is the whole Church, and Paul always uses the singular (???to the Church of God that is in Corinth???) when he mentions the local Church. By contrast, Churches (plural) refers to regional or organizational groups. In other words, 1 ???whole Church??? + 1 ???whole Church??? + 1 ???whole Church??? = the ???whole Church??? in 3 places or 3 ???Churches???. Paul does not say ???the Church in Galatia??? or ???the Church of Achaia (Greece)??? because it is improper terminology! There is no one Eucharist in Galatia or in Achaia and therefore we cannot consider all the Christians in those areas ???in bulk??? and call them ???a Church???. ???Exiles??? and ???saints??? in Asia or Galatiaa certainly, but not as Church.

The same can be said of our modern use of ???Church??? (as in Orthodox Church) to refer to a worldwide communion of local catholic Churches, what we call ???the universal Church???. As in the case of regional Churches, there is no ???universal Eucharist??? and because of this, the term ???universal Church??? is convenient but at best improper and often misleading. To summarize, the Church, strictly speaking, is the Body of Christ, the eschatological unity of all those who have been united to Christ???s life in all times and places. This is the foundational use of ???Church??? in the New Testament.

The other proper use for ???Church???, in a way that connects with our realm, is in reference to the gathering of Christians from a specific area to celebrate the Eucharist. If in Matthew 16:18, the meaning of Church is uncertain, Matthew 18 undoubtedly uses the same word to describe the local community. This ???whole Church??? is the manifestation of the eschatological Church in our world, in our town. Beyond that, we have ???Churches???.

There is a great risk of equating (and confusing) the eschatological Church with the sum of all the local Churches in existence on earth at one particular point in time, i.e. the so-called ???universal Church???. The idea that all Christians alive on earth form a universal organism or society called Church is for instance at the heart of Roman Catholic ecclesiology. According to this view, the Church, the ???whole Church??? is first and foremost ???the faithful everywhere???. Hence, the unity of the Church depends on all the local Churches being joined to their ontological head (in this case the Roman Church), to form a single worldwide body called ???the Catholic Church???.


APPENDIX B: CHURCH AND APOSTLES, THE EASTERN / GREEK ORTHODOX BIBLE (EOB)
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Messages In This Thread
For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by *Albion* - 09-12-2008, 05:37 PM
Mari/P.E.A.C.E. update - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-13-2008, 04:51 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-16-2008, 11:21 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Amatsyah - 09-17-2008, 05:57 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by aramaic_albion - 09-17-2008, 06:18 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by aramaic_albion - 09-17-2008, 08:07 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-17-2008, 08:15 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-17-2008, 10:14 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by glscottnz - 09-18-2008, 11:47 AM
Spiritual "Meat Loaf" - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-18-2008, 03:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by aramaic_albion - 09-18-2008, 06:30 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-18-2008, 06:35 PM
Nashama - by Stephen Silver - 09-18-2008, 11:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-18-2008, 11:30 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-19-2008, 05:38 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-19-2008, 10:23 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-20-2008, 02:30 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-20-2008, 06:32 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 05:53 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 08:50 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 09:02 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 09:14 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 12:44 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 01:07 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-21-2008, 01:10 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 01:12 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by glscottnz - 09-21-2008, 02:48 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 03:05 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 05:09 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 05:32 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 05:50 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Dawid - 09-21-2008, 12:56 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-21-2008, 06:55 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-21-2008, 08:19 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-22-2008, 07:57 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-22-2008, 09:01 AM
I am weary - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-22-2008, 04:59 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 05:06 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 05:35 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 06:03 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 06:12 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 06:17 PM
The Nazarene Creed - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-22-2008, 06:34 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 06:52 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 06:54 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 07:02 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 07:17 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 07:25 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Dawid - 09-23-2008, 01:04 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-24-2008, 12:35 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 12:25 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 04:12 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 04:31 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 04:58 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 05:12 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 08:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-01-2008, 09:10 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 09:52 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-01-2008, 10:54 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 10-01-2008, 11:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 11:06 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 10-01-2008, 11:10 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 11:24 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-02-2008, 06:52 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-03-2008, 07:01 AM
To Spyridon - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 10-03-2008, 01:35 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 10-03-2008, 03:01 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-03-2008, 03:38 PM
Exploring Q'noma and Trinity - by Stephen Silver - 10-03-2008, 07:22 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-03-2008, 07:30 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-03-2008, 07:34 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-09-2008, 05:47 AM

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