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For Andrew Gabriel Roth
#1
I wanted to write this before Shabbat falls here............Will Mari/P.E.A.C.E. be out perhaps ANYTIME SOON?

Maybe in the next week, or so?

I'm just longing and wishing..........

Shlama, Albion
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#2
Shlama Akhi Albion,

Baruch should know the date sometime next week. He is working as hard as he can on it. We are only talking about formatting problems with 4 pages out of 1100. Once these are fixed we will know the production schedule. I promise to let you know the moment I do.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
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#3
Shlama all--

Okay, a little more detail! Baruch just told me that next week is the critical week. Here is what is happening:

1) Sept 13th-14th: Last detailed errata search. The things that still come up are spacing things that happen when the pdfs are made but considering Mari's immense size, these are very, very small considerations indeed. It is a normal process to go from a regular hard copy print, to a digital print pdf and from there to have these printers, who are extremely detail oriented, look for the last bit of issues and generate lists of affected pages. I spoke with Baruch about something I saw too, and it will be corrected in time along with all the other minor things. Bottom line, between now and Monday morning is the absolutely, positively last, final utterly over part of the editing process. What stands on Monday morning is what will be published.

2) Sept 15th: On Monday, the printers will send Baruch a sample cover (not the text). He already knows what it looks like and will approve it immediately. Their process demands that he send the physical cover back with an approval form. While that is going on, these same printers will be loading FINAL TEXT for print, at which point the errata pages will be checked off, one at a time, and replaced for final edition.

3) September 16th-17th: Sometime in the following 48 hours, with the physical and textual approvals finalized, the printers will THEN say the job is finally scheduled. There are no other real specifics to give, except to say that Baruch was told they are a little backlogged on cover processing. Baruch does NOT think this represents a major delay. We are currently trying to figure out how to get "smaller runs" out first for the small amount of time that they need to catch their breath. The printers are going into busy season; there is nothing out of the ordinary about this or their process to date. Baruch insisted to me these folks could not be more professional or efficient, and I have to take him at his word.

4) After Sept 17th: We will know the unit price, the amount of copies coming and when, how to order, and when to expect physical delivery. No one will buy Mari without a clear understanding of the timetable or what it entails.

Finally, just a comment I have made before on several occasions. On the one hand there is always a slight worry that in any work of Mari's size a few things may get by you no matter how often and extensively you check. The level of attention detail on this way exceeds anything I have ever done or been involved with. It is simply so huge that you wonder if it will ever really be done, but it is done, so on the other hand we MUST let it go out there and soon. Baruch and I know this and are committed to having as high a quality product as is humanly possible.

Overall though I remain extremely encouraged and excited. As frustrating as the delays have been, each one, and I know I sound like a broken record, has made Mari better. That includes issues just dealt with 30 minutes ago as well as what has been going on contunuously for years now.

Stay tuned!

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
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#4
Shlama all--

I think this will likely be the last email (I really hope) before the big announcement on publication/delivery date of Mari. I will let Baruch speak for himself in the email he just sent me not 30 minutes ago:

Shlama Akhi Andrew,

Todah Rabbah.

Just got off the phone with the tech department and CSR guy minutes ago and we're all good to go!!!

BUT they STILL will not give me a press date until they receive the signed digital hardcopy press proof on their desk, and I'm overnighting it so they'll have it in the morning.

They have all the files updated and approved and are ready to burn plates and make the dye for gold foil stamping the cover. Indeed this is truly the BEST WORK that anyone could be part of!!!
This has been a BEAUTIFUL work and the Ruach haKodesh has brought us through each step of the way.

I'm sure we'll find things for the next printing but we've done the level best we could,
and to me it was only by the Grace of the Almighty YHWH that those last few verses were brought to our attention.

Baruch haShem YHWH!!!

Now I'm focusing on some matters of faciliation and book distribution etc and hope to have that in place in the next few days, hopefully this week. I've looked at many options and have narrowed it down so now it's just a matter of negotiation but will keep you posted. YHWH be with you,
Blessings, Baruch
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#5
Thanks for the update, I await the arrival.

Brother Andrew, could you show a sneak preview of these verses please? ---> 1st Corintians 14:12-19
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#6
Shlama Akhi Thirdwoe,

Sure, I will post my translation of 1 Corinthians 14:12-19. Before I do though let me just say that I have not developed any firm theological position on the controversy of tongues--it just has not come up all that much for me and my brethren. I have therefore tried to just translate here as I have throughout Mari, being faithful to the text as I can. So, having said that, here is what I came up with:

12. So also you,since you are searching for the gifts of the Spirit for the edification of the assembly; you seek to excel. 13. And let him who speaks in a tongue, pray that he may also interpret. 14. For if I should pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my (spiritual) understanding[65] is without fruits. 15. What then will I do? I will pray with my spirit and will pray with my understanding; and I will sing with my spirit, and will sing with my understanding. 16. Otherwise if I bless with my spirit, how will he who fills the place of one unlearned say "Amen" on your giving thanks; for he does not know what you say? 17. You bless indeed, very well; but your neighbor is not edified. 18. I thank Elohim that I speak with tongues more than all of you. 19. But in the assembly, I would rather speak five words with my (spiritual) understanding, that I might instruct others, than a myriad of words in a tongue.

Footnote [65] : Derived from da'at, this word represents a kind of heavenly understanding coming out through prayer as opposed to earthly knowledge.

Hope I didn't create more controversy. As I said, this is not a topic I get into.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
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#7
I think it's perfect <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->
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#8
I Second that <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->
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#9
Dear Andrew,

You said:

"After Sept 17th: We will know the unit price, the amount of copies coming and when, how to order, and when to expect physical delivery. No one will buy Mari without a clear understanding of the timetable or what it entails."

Gee, I hate to ask this, but today is the 18th, and I'm wondering if indeed you KNOW THIS??

Thanks, Albion
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#10
Shlama Akhi Albion,

Yes and the beauty of it is that the 19th and 20th are also after the 17th! And besides this, on the East Coast of the US it is still the 17th. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/laugh.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laugh" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Seriously though, if I knew those last bits of info I would post them as I did the update from that first message last night. You are the last person on earth I would keep this info from.

As Baruch said in the email, today the printer should have his signed authorization to proceed and then we will know when Mari goes through the press. Baruch has been continuously hearing about an "early" and a "late" date but neither timetable has been spelled out yet. With his formal approval process completed though this should change very soon. Everything we know thus far, excepting the actual date itself, is pointing to them doing this soon.

Thank you for your patience my dear brother. I know the delays have been frustrating.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
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#11
Today is the 17th................Duhhhhhhhhhhh. <!-- sBlush --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/blush.gif" alt="Blush" title="Blush" /><!-- sBlush -->

I have no excuse, I didn't know what day today is.

i would flunk a hospital quiz for sure! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: --> lol

Albion
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#12
<!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/laugh.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laugh" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/laugh.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laugh" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/laugh.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laugh" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/laugh.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laugh" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Seriously Albion, calm down brother, MARI is coming.
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#13
Quote:12. So also you,since you are searching for the gifts of the Spirit for the edification of the assembly; you seek to excel. 13. And let him who speaks in a tongue, pray that he may also interpret. 14. For if I should pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my (spiritual) understanding[65] is without fruits. 15. What then will I do? I will pray with my spirit and will pray with my understanding; and I will sing with my spirit, and will sing with my understanding. 16. Otherwise if I bless with my spirit, how will he who fills the place of one unlearned say "Amen" on your giving thanks; for he does not know what you say? 17. You bless indeed, very well; but your neighbor is not edified. 18. I thank Elohim that I speak with tongues more than all of you. 19. But in the assembly, I would rather speak five words with my (spiritual) understanding, that I might instruct others, than a myriad of words in a tongue. Footnote [65] : Derived from da'at, this word represents a kind of heavenly understanding coming out through prayer as opposed to earthly knowledge.


Thanks Andrew for showing the Scripture. I do have a few questions if I may.

What are the linguistic reasons that caused you to translate it tongues rather than languages? And would the term "understanding" mean the same as "Mind".

Translating these passages the way you did here makes sense and is, I believe, the correct way to translate them.
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#14
Shlama Akhi Thirdwoe,

Not a problem at all. These are great questions. Let's go one at a time:


What are the linguistic reasons that caused you to translate it tongues rather than languages?

AGR:

A personal choice really. LISHAN can be either. I think I leaned towards "tongues" because to my mind the passage was talking about spiritual understanding, prayer, and thoughtful interpretation. "language" just didn't seem to bring that over directly enough to my taste. "languages" were confused at the Tower of Babel by YHWH. Here, Rav Shaul is talking about the opposite YHWH-inspired speech that can edify, or at least the kind of speech that comes through spiritual process and focus. So "language" seemed too clinical and "tongue" more spiritually based.

Next:

And would the term "understanding" mean the same as "Mind".

AGR:

Technically yes--madeaa can mean "mind", but again the spiritual nature of the text caused me to go away from that. See, my problem there is Greek vs. Semitic thought process. In the mindset of the Greeks the "soul" is something separate from the body. It is something we have tucked away somewhere. We often talk--too much in my opinion--about "mind, body, spirit" as discrete categories.

But in the Torah, specifically Genesis 2:7, we are told the Ruach of YHWH breathed into Adam and he became a LIVING SOUL. So Adam does not HAVE a soul; rather he IS A SOUL. The term nefesh (Aram. naphsha) can also be translated as LIFE or even SELF. We are told, for example, that in Lev 17:11 the NEFESH is in the blood. If the NEFESH is in the blood, then the SOUL is mixed in with our physical reality in some way not totally clear but definitely evident.

Although, if I went with MIND here then it would imply from a Greek view that one's intellect rather than one's spirit was engaged in the prayer process, and the way that might be taken by others could extend into areas that I didn't want folks to go after reading Mari. This is what we call in the trade "connotation vs. denotation" or the difference between the technical/dictionary meaning of a word and the way it may be inferred away from that meaning.

It is no small thing to wrestle with. We could for example look at Y'shua's view of the Shema in places like Matti 22:37. He says, "Love YHWH with all your HEART (the seat of intelligence in the ancient world) all your SOUL (nefesh), all your MIGHT and all your MIND", but MIND is a different word, raiyana. So does that "love" of YHWH imply intellect, spirit or both? I took the Eastern view of this Eastern text that all these things were kind of bound up together; i.e. that within say the NEFESH were our emotions, memory, personality, etc; so it sort of starts with our intelligence (heart) but it goes through a kind a spiritual transit that plain old "mind" just didn't convey to me.

Such is more art than science I am afraid. There are other places where any of these choices could be the alternate choice without any problem whatsoever. It is more context and experience with the language filtered through one's own style, that dictates how it ultimately comes.

And finally:

Translating these passages the way you did here makes sense and is, I believe, the correct way to translate them.

AGR:

Thanks for that. Hope I didn't ramble too much.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
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#15
I LOVE THIS THREAD ... richest blessings to all the contributers ...
Akhi Andrew, ... thank you so much for your postings, I am really looking forward to where this discussion goes.
[ btw ... it was wonderful to get the sneak preview of 1st Cor 14 ... choice crumbs from a rich banquet ]
Contained within this steely calm exterior that I call me,is a seething mass of pure excitement and anticipation for Mari !!! <!-- s:onfire: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/onfire.gif" alt=":onfire:" title="On Fire" /><!-- s:onfire: -->

I blame the poor grammar and southern spelling, on a combination of single didget typing and blue tooth technology <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

Shlama
Gordon
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