09-09-2008, 01:27 AM
Shlama to you---
First of all Spyridon, if you want a mainstream Christian translation, then there are plenty of those. I really don't think you want a discussion about THEIR bias, right? I however don't like the suggestion that I have some kind of different agenda with Mari. I am a Semite and I have translated from my people's sacred traditions, even as Lamsa did. I think it a good thing that a translator respects those traditons and believes them to be YHWH-breathed.
As for being out of mainstream Messianic Judaism, I don't think you know what you are talking about. I am surely not a Greek in Jewish clothing. If being against the fake kind of Messianism that is funded by Protestants and tries to get Jews to keep Easter and Christmas is "non-mainstream", then I accept the title with pride. You can have your Easter ham--I'll just pass on that if that's okay with you. And you are right, keeping Torah is a personal choice, so it is one I take personally and believe strongly in. Oh, and I also don't think breaking the first four of the Ten Commandments is what Messiah would have wanted either. Cool? Do we understand one another?
If however you think for one moment that I believe in a low-Christology or have an Evyonim outlook, you are sorely mistaken. I believe Y'shua was and is YHWH, with the same understanding of Qnoma as the COE. I believe he was born a virgin, did miracles and was raised from the dead. And I believe Y'shua said, because he did, that not one yodh would drop out of the Torah until heaven and earth disappeared and these are still with us. If you read Nazarene history you would understand that the kind of "Judaizing" Rav Shaul was talking about was in putting ORAL LAW above written law, a point Y'shua made repeatedly, as in Matthew 15, and where he said in John, "If you believe Moses you would believe me, for he wrote about me". If you think otherwise I suggest you return to the Sermon on the Mount in Matti and see that he said 6 times, "You have heard that it was SAID__________, but I SAY to you_________." And yet Y'shua never once disagreed about when Shabbat or the other holy occasions were.
As for Rav Shaul (Paul), last time I checked Romans 7:12 called the Torah "holy, just and good" and Romans 3:31 said, "Do we nullify the Torah by faith, no, we establish the Torah". Rav Shaul fasted on Yom Kippur and kept Shabbat 84 times in Acts alone. Rav Shaul said he was "a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee" in the PRESENT tense and that he has done nothing against the Jewish people or the Temple (Acts 23:1-6). And if you want my defintion of a Nazarene, it is also the same as Rav Shaul's (Acts 24:12-14), so if you want a "Judaizer", there's one for you right there.
James called the Torah "the perfect law of liberty" and John said sin was transgression from the Torah. Shall I go on? I can find support for all Ten Commandments and most of the major moedim in the NT. Good luck with doing the same for your holidays.
I also think, as Albion said, that you have no right to judge what you yourself have not read. The only thing I can think of that makes me "non-mainstream" in Nazarene circles may be my belief in Peshitta primacy, but let me tell you something: 10 years ago most Nazarenes had never heard of the Peshitta and those that did had a lot of misconceptions about it. Now at least they are talking about it, so this is not as "extreme" as it once was.
And finally, just so you know, I have no interest in "first contact" with the Christian West in the sense that I don't witness to churches. I do witness to those who ask me on an individual basis and I will tell the truth from Scripture as best I can. I am here to explain my faith, not convert you from yours.
If you think KJV is not biased, stay with that. If you think NIV, NASB or any of the 1000 + NT translations from the Greek text is perfect and unbiased then go with those. I am not out here for people who make blind judgments and U surely do not need you to purchase it.
But in another way you are right. If Mari was "mainstream" then there would be no need for it.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
First of all Spyridon, if you want a mainstream Christian translation, then there are plenty of those. I really don't think you want a discussion about THEIR bias, right? I however don't like the suggestion that I have some kind of different agenda with Mari. I am a Semite and I have translated from my people's sacred traditions, even as Lamsa did. I think it a good thing that a translator respects those traditons and believes them to be YHWH-breathed.
As for being out of mainstream Messianic Judaism, I don't think you know what you are talking about. I am surely not a Greek in Jewish clothing. If being against the fake kind of Messianism that is funded by Protestants and tries to get Jews to keep Easter and Christmas is "non-mainstream", then I accept the title with pride. You can have your Easter ham--I'll just pass on that if that's okay with you. And you are right, keeping Torah is a personal choice, so it is one I take personally and believe strongly in. Oh, and I also don't think breaking the first four of the Ten Commandments is what Messiah would have wanted either. Cool? Do we understand one another?
If however you think for one moment that I believe in a low-Christology or have an Evyonim outlook, you are sorely mistaken. I believe Y'shua was and is YHWH, with the same understanding of Qnoma as the COE. I believe he was born a virgin, did miracles and was raised from the dead. And I believe Y'shua said, because he did, that not one yodh would drop out of the Torah until heaven and earth disappeared and these are still with us. If you read Nazarene history you would understand that the kind of "Judaizing" Rav Shaul was talking about was in putting ORAL LAW above written law, a point Y'shua made repeatedly, as in Matthew 15, and where he said in John, "If you believe Moses you would believe me, for he wrote about me". If you think otherwise I suggest you return to the Sermon on the Mount in Matti and see that he said 6 times, "You have heard that it was SAID__________, but I SAY to you_________." And yet Y'shua never once disagreed about when Shabbat or the other holy occasions were.
As for Rav Shaul (Paul), last time I checked Romans 7:12 called the Torah "holy, just and good" and Romans 3:31 said, "Do we nullify the Torah by faith, no, we establish the Torah". Rav Shaul fasted on Yom Kippur and kept Shabbat 84 times in Acts alone. Rav Shaul said he was "a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee" in the PRESENT tense and that he has done nothing against the Jewish people or the Temple (Acts 23:1-6). And if you want my defintion of a Nazarene, it is also the same as Rav Shaul's (Acts 24:12-14), so if you want a "Judaizer", there's one for you right there.
James called the Torah "the perfect law of liberty" and John said sin was transgression from the Torah. Shall I go on? I can find support for all Ten Commandments and most of the major moedim in the NT. Good luck with doing the same for your holidays.
I also think, as Albion said, that you have no right to judge what you yourself have not read. The only thing I can think of that makes me "non-mainstream" in Nazarene circles may be my belief in Peshitta primacy, but let me tell you something: 10 years ago most Nazarenes had never heard of the Peshitta and those that did had a lot of misconceptions about it. Now at least they are talking about it, so this is not as "extreme" as it once was.
And finally, just so you know, I have no interest in "first contact" with the Christian West in the sense that I don't witness to churches. I do witness to those who ask me on an individual basis and I will tell the truth from Scripture as best I can. I am here to explain my faith, not convert you from yours.
If you think KJV is not biased, stay with that. If you think NIV, NASB or any of the 1000 + NT translations from the Greek text is perfect and unbiased then go with those. I am not out here for people who make blind judgments and U surely do not need you to purchase it.
But in another way you are right. If Mari was "mainstream" then there would be no need for it.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth