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On the "Western Five" extra-Peshitta books
#46
Quote:Which leave me wondering if the PeshittA lines up with the Western Text type why is there only a hand-full of the Western Texts as opposed to the others?

The Eastern Peshitta Text, agrees more often with the Byzantine/Majority/TR text, but not always, sometimes with the Alexandrian and other families, such as the Western text...clearly demonstrating that it is not a translation of any Greek text, but they all flowing out from it.

The reason that older Byzantine Manuscripts have not been found, is the fact that these were the most used and worn out, and replaced with newer copies, the former being made of Papyrus material in the 1st to 3rd century, which didn?t last too long...these "byzantine" type of texts, which text (Byzantine) is still the official Greek text of the ancient Greek Orthodox Church, by far having the most copies (thousands) than the very very few Alexandrian text type mss, which were less used and either tucked away in the Vatican library (The Vaticanus) or used as scrap paper in an Egyptian Monastery (The Sinaticus), being full of scribal mistakes and not fit for further copies.

I've done an extensive study on the variants of the four main Greek text families, and find that the Byzantine text, lines up much more with the Eastern Peshitta Text, and is witnessed to much more often in the Greek Church Fathers quotations when they taught from the Scriptures they had in hand in the late 1st to the early 3rd century.


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#47
Thanks ThirdWoe,

OK, I can buy that about the texts. So do you think that the Byzantine texts are the best to study the Western 4 from?
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#48
I believe so, but I always check them with the Western Peshitto text, which is a very old translation of the even older Greek text that was used to translate them.

If you come across a reading in the W5 where you wonder if it might not be original to it's text as first written, then we can look it up in the ancient church fathers qoutations to see what they had in their copies from the 1st to 3rd century. I have found a fairly easy way to look these all up online, if you would like to learn a new and useful trick, let me know and I'll show ya how. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Shlama,
Chuck
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#49
Yeah please show me.<!-- s:whaasup: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/whaasup.gif" alt=":whaasup:" title="Whaasup" /><!-- s:whaasup: --> I may be an old dog but I am still willing to learn tricks.

And did I hear you right that the PeshittO Texts of the Western 4 could be one of the bests text to translate them into English? So I can pretty much study the English translations of the PeshittO Western 4 and English translations based from the Byzantine Texts and I will be doing good?
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#50
That reminds me Chuck, since this does seem to be your hobby horse (and a good one at that!), if you so had the desire, then putting together a good PDF collection of your textual critical studies (continueing on with that one list you began to make in another thread) would I'm sure be a much valued document <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
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#51
(08-20-2012, 06:08 AM)Thirdwoe Wrote: I believe so, but I always check them with the Western Peshitto text, which is a very old translation of the even older Greek text that was used to translate them.

If you come across a reading in the W5 where you wonder if it might not be original to it's text as first written, then we can look it up in the ancient church fathers qoutations to see what they had in their copies from the 1st to 3rd century. I have found a fairly easy way to look these all up online, if you would like to learn a new and useful trick, let me know and I'll show ya how. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

Shlama,
Chuck

You offered to write about your method but haven't.  Does the offer still stand?  Thanks.
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#52
It sure does...

Click on this web link below, then follow the instructions on how to search the Scripture references in each volume of the Church Fathers writings.

http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html

Click on which volume you want to search.

Click the "Read Online" option for available formats.

Click the "Table of Contents" tab at the top left of the page, just left of the <<Prev tab.

Click the + option left of the "Indexes" tab.

Click on "Index of Scripture References"

There is the entire list of every Scripture reference or allusion to them in the writings of the Church Fathers.

Enjoy your searching... : )
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