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Lord and God
#31
Jesus who is God Himself, in His grace, tasted death for all men.

Heb 2:9 But we see him, who was depressed somewhat lower than the angels, to be this Jesus, because of the passion of his death; and glory and honor are placed on his head; for God himself, in his grace, tasted death for all men. (Peshitta Murdock)

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (KJV)


Jesus is God over all
Rom 9:5 and from among whom, Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is God over all; to whom be praises and benediction, for ever and ever; Amen. (Peshitta Murdock)
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. (KJV)


Jesus has an everlasting Kingdom and is MarYah (Lord)
2Pe 1:11 For thus will entrance be given you abundantly, into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Redeemer Jesus the Messiah. (Peshitta)
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (KJV)

Mark 12:29 Jesus said to him: The first of all the commandments [is]: Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord (Murdock)

1Co 8:6 yet to us, on our part, there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, by whom are all things, and we also by him. (Murdock)

Eph 4:5 For, the Lord is one, and the faith one, and the baptism one;
Eph 4:6 and one God is the Father of all, and over all, and by all, and in us all. (Murdock)

Now here is the equation for illustration as how one God and one Lord is connected:-
1) (Mark 12:29) the Lord our God is one Lord (God = One Lord)
2) (1Co 8:6) One Lord Jesus the Messiah (One Lord = Jesus the Messiah)

Combine 1 + 2 = The Lord our God is Jesus the Messiah

I understand that the word "LORD" for Lord God in the OT and the Lord Jesus the Messiah in the NT are the same "MarYah" in Aramaic. And I do not think that the vocabulary in Aramaic is limited in view of being used widely before the time of Christ. So there should not be any limitation for sharing of words like LORD GOD or Lord Jesus in small letters to differentiate their rank. After all the DNA of God the Father and DNA of Jesus are the same and one LORD.


In Greek the Lord is Kurios and God is theos
Hear, O Israel; the Lord (kurios) our God is one Lord (Kurios)

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord (Kurios) and Savior Jesus Christ. (KJV)

Does both Aramaic and Greek prove that Lord God and Lord Jesus are the same one LORD (Kurios)?

Anyone has new insights on why Lord Jesus is written in small letter "Lord" and not LORD Jesus to be equal to LORD GOD since they are one? (John 10:30 I and my Father are one.) It seems to me that God the Father and Lord Jesus are two "qnome" and yet one in the Spirit. God is a Spirit (John 4:24)
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#32
positron Wrote:
Paul Younan Wrote:Positron, you know the difference between proper names and titles, right? God only has one Name.

Good God has one Holy Name YHWH. But what is the verse in Exodus about His Name and not Title? Is it a wrong translation from Greek manuscript?

Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his NAME? what shall I say unto them?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, "The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob", hath sent me unto you: this is my NAME forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (KJV)

Versus

Peshitta Aramaic Lamsa translation also state "What is His Name?" & This is my Name.

So who is right? Bible is right or you are right - one Name YHWH???

Yes Positron Elohim (God) has only ONE name:

Exodus 3:13-15
13 Moshe said to Elohim, "When I come to the Israelites and say to them 'The Elohim of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" 14 And Elohim said to Moshe, "Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh." He continued, "Thus shall you say to the Israelites, 'Ehyeh sent me to you.'" 15 And Elohim said further to Moshe, "Thus shall you speak to the Israelites: YHWH, the Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Avraham, the Elohim of Yitzha'aq, and the Elohim of Ya'aqov, has sent me to you: This shall be My name forever, This My appellation for all eternity.

The name that Elohim refers to is YHWH NOT Ehyeh or Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh, which are titles NOT names, same with "Elohim of..." these are titles NOT names, Elohim's name is YHWH, and He's very firm on this point:

This shall be My name forever, This My appellation for all eternity.

How do we KNOW that YHWH is The Name He refers to? Where else in Scripture does Elohim call Himself Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh??? But YHWH appears over 7000 times in the Hebrew Tanakh, Positron, absolutely NO-ONE in their right mind (past & present) disputes that the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is the one and ONLY name of Almighty Elohim!

Elohim's name is YHWH, and He has no other name by which He is to be addressed, period! Titles like Elohim, El Shaddai, El Elyon, Adonai, MarYAH, etc. are another matter though, but don't confuse a name with a title, they are NOT the same thing.

positron Wrote:Jesus who is God Himself, in His grace, tasted death for all men.

Heb 2:9 But we see him, who was depressed somewhat lower than the angels, to be this Jesus, because of the passion of his death; and glory and honor are placed on his head; for God himself, in his grace, tasted death for all men. (Peshitta Murdock)

This is NOT the authentic Peshitta reading of Hebrews 2:9.

Quote:Jesus is God over all
Rom 9:5 and from among whom, Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is God over all; to whom be praises and benediction, for ever and ever; Amen. (Peshitta Murdock)
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. (KJV)

What's your point?

Quote:Jesus has an everlasting Kingdom and is MarYah (Lord)
2Pe 1:11 For thus will entrance be given you abundantly, into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Redeemer Jesus the Messiah. (Peshitta)
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (KJV)

Mark 12:29 Jesus said to him: The first of all the commandments [is]: Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord (Murdock)

1Co 8:6 yet to us, on our part, there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, by whom are all things, and we also by him. (Murdock)

Eph 4:5 For, the Lord is one, and the faith one, and the baptism one;
Eph 4:6 and one God is the Father of all, and over all, and by all, and in us all. (Murdock)

Now here is the equation for illustration as how one God and one Lord is connected:-
1) (Mark 12:29) the Lord our God is one Lord (God = One Lord)
2) (1Co 8:6) One Lord Jesus the Messiah (One Lord = Jesus the Messiah)

Combine 1 + 2 = The Lord our God is Jesus the Messiah

Again, what's your point? We already knew that.

Quote:I understand that the word "LORD" for Lord God in the OT and the Lord Jesus the Messiah in the NT are the same "MarYah" in Aramaic. And I do not think that the vocabulary in Aramaic is limited in view of being used widely before the time of Christ. So there should not be any limitation for sharing of words like LORD GOD or Lord Jesus in small letters to differentiate their rank. After all the DNA of God the Father and DNA of Jesus are the same and one LORD.

You do know that in Aramaic (and Hebrew) script, there are no capital or miniscule letters like in Greek or English, don't you? Have ever looked at the actual Aramaic text itself and not just the English translations?

Quote:In Greek the Lord is Kurios and God is theos
Hear, O Israel; the Lord (kurios) our God is one Lord (Kurios)

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord (Kurios) and Savior Jesus Christ. (KJV)

Does both Aramaic and Greek prove that Lord God and Lord Jesus are the same one LORD (Kurios)?

Anyone has new insights on why Lord Jesus is written in small letter "Lord" and not LORD Jesus to be equal to LORD GOD since they are one? (John 10:30 I and my Father are one.) It seems to me that God the Father and Lord Jesus are two "qnome" and yet one in the Spirit. God is a Spirit (John 4:24)

Firstly, do remember that there is more than one Greek NT, there's the Textus Receptus (KJV is based on this), Byzantine Majority Text & Alexandrian Critical Text (base for NIV), and these texts have lot's of variants between them.

As for the "Lord/LORD" issue, while this is an ambiguous mess in the Greek texts, I assure you that in the Peshitta, MarYAH is used for both the Father and Yeshua, leaving no doubt that they are ONE, as Yeshua says. But while MarYAH is used for Yeshua and the Father, it is not used for anyone else, every other master/lord in the Peshitta is called "mar".

Hope this was helpful.
Shalom, Shlama, Salaam & Yiasou.
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#33
Christina Wrote:Yes Positron Elohim (God) has only ONE name:

Exodus 3:13-15
13 Moshe said to Elohim, "When I come to the Israelites and say to them 'The Elohim of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" 14 And Elohim said to Moshe, "Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh." He continued, "Thus shall you say to the Israelites, 'Ehyeh sent me to you.'" 15 And Elohim said further to Moshe, "Thus shall you speak to the Israelites: YHWH, the Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Avraham, the Elohim of Yitzha'aq, and the Elohim of Ya'aqov, has sent me to you: This shall be My name forever, This My appellation for all eternity.

The name that Elohim refers to is YHWH NOT Ehyeh or Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh, which are titles NOT names, same with "Elohim of..." these are titles NOT names, Elohim's name is YHWH, and He's very firm on this point:

This shall be My name forever, This My appellation for all eternity.

How do we KNOW that YHWH is The Name He refers to? Where else in Scripture does Elohim call Himself Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh??? But YHWH appears over 7000 times in the Hebrew Tanakh, Positron, absolutely NO-ONE in their right mind (past & present) disputes that the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is the one and ONLY name of Almighty Elohim!

Elohim's name is YHWH, and He has no other name by which He is to be addressed, period! Titles like Elohim, El Shaddai, El Elyon, Adonai, MarYAH, etc. are another matter though, but don't confuse a name with a title, they are NOT the same thing.

Christina, thank you so much for the clarification that the original name of Jehovah is one name YHWH. Now I am more focus on the exact name of our Holy God. I wonder as why Lamsa Aramaic Translation did not has the word "YHWH" in the same passage as quoted below.

EXODUS 3:13 "And Moses said to God, Behold, when I go to the children of Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say to them?
14 And God said to Moses, I am AHIAH ASHAR HIGH (that is, THE LIVING GOD); and he said, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: AHIAH has sent me to you.
15 And God said moreover to Moses, Thus shall you say to the children of Israel: (missing? YHWH) The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you; this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial to all generations." (LAMSA)

As Hebrew and Aramaic are sisters language, I expect that the unknown word like "YHWH" to be retained for the sake of integrity in the English Bible Translation. Sadly there are some omissions of holy words in the English Translation.

What is Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh versus AHIAH ASHAR HIGH ? I cannot see that Ehyeh = High even though I am Hebrew & Aramaic illiterate. I heavily depend on good Aramaic-English translation to know the truth of Aramaic primacy.

Quote:Firstly, do remember that there is more than one Greek NT, there's the Textus Receptus (KJV is based on this), Byzantine Majority Text & Alexandrian Critical Text (base for NIV), and these texts have lot's of variants between them.

As for the "Lord/LORD" issue, while this is an ambiguous mess in the Greek texts, I assure you that in the Peshitta, MarYAH is used for both the Father and Yeshua, leaving no doubt that they are ONE, as Yeshua says. But while MarYAH is used for Yeshua and the Father, it is not used for anyone else, every other master/lord in the Peshitta is called "mar".

Hope this was helpful.

Yes, I know about the Greek Textus Receptus (Byzantine Text) and Codex Sinaiticus (Alexandrian Text) which are at variant with each other in terms of length of the verses and variations in words. It is good that Aramaic Peshitta NT at least answer the reason for the variations in both Greek manuscripts as certain words have more than one meaning and the Greek translators use different choice of words. I have stopped accusing of manuscripts being altered after knowing better of Aramaic primacy. My intention is to connect the titles of Lord and God together for Lord Jesus Christ to prove His divinity from the Scriptures. For instance Romans 9:5 is very good example of the strength of Greek and Aramaic texts that show Jesus is God beyond doubt for those who do not believe that Lord Jesus is The Son of the Most High YHWH.

Romans 9:5
KJV: ???Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.???

NIV: ???Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.???

The KJV, plays with the grammar of the Greek, changing the meaning, while the NIV (often seen as opposing Jesus??? divinity) is true to the Greek and proclaims Jesus??? divinity.

From the Greek in Romans 9:5 (both Byzantine and Alexandrian), we get the impression that Jesus is God, as the word is ???????? (theos). The word ???theos??? in the Greek, is ???Alaha???. The Peshitta makes it clear that Jesus is God.

Romans 9:5 and from among whom, Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is God over all; to whom be praises and benediction, for ever and ever; Amen. (Peshitta - Murdock)

Murdock - John 1:18 No man hath ever seen God; the only begotten God, he who is in the bosom of his Father, he hath declared [him].

NIV - John 1:18 No one has ever seen God but God the One and Only who is at the Father's side has made him known.

KJV - 1Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Murdock - 1Tim 3:16 and truly great, is this mystery of righteousness, which was revealed in the flesh, and justified in the spirit, and seen by angels, and proclaimed among the Gentiles, and believed on in the world, and received up into glory.

NIV - 1 Tim 3:16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He (*some manuscripts God) appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

All the translations have their strength and weaknesses. Most importantly the truth is priceless that Lord Jesus is God the Almighty.

It is a great joy to know that the nature of Jesus is the same as His Father. The Lord our God is One Lord! One Lord is Jesus the Messiah. So the Lord our God is Jesus the Messiah!

Praises to Lord YHWH

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#34
I'm new here and not trying to ruffle any feathers (as I have seen the appearance of perhaps a little impatience with some questions). I haven't studied Aramaic and I'm not fluent in Hebrew however I just have a question concerning the term "maryah" (especially the capitolization of the "Y") and it's usage for YHWH being the same as when used for YAHUshuah.

I looked through every lexicon and concordance to find where this "maryah" fit in and never found it... Now thanks to this forum I see that it's not actually an Aramaic word but a construct title like 'lord". Now "lord" also apllies to "ba`al" and "god" to "gott" another heathen deity although they are used in the scriptures so in the usage of them I am wary although I'm not saying the same of "maryah". The only term in Aramaic I found used for YHWH was "marya", the same is used for YAHushuah and (Christina) the same word is also used for Thomas in one instance... "marya" is just a lexeme so there are quite a few words that stem from it most of them having to do with lord or master...

My question then is how is it said that "maryah" is YHWH and "maryah" is YAHushuah making them the same, unless there is some kind of way to differentiate between the two? There are too many scriptures that show a separation of Father and Son to say they are the same so any person reading an Aramaic/English bible will certainly run into a brick wall when trying to decipher how the word can apply to both.

Can anyone help me out on this?

Thanks in advance

Alex
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#35
Interesting you would have a problem identifying both the Father and the Son as MarYah, as you seem to overlook that the Bible, Aramaic, Greek or Hebrew, identifies both as:
I Am
King
First and Last
Rock
Saviour
Coming One
Creator
Shepherd
God
Lord
...

Maybe the problem is not MarYah, but a false concept of sonship.
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.
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#36
The problem stems from passages such as, Yahuchanan 5:19-23, 5:30-32, 5:36-38, 5:43-44. Now that is just a smattering of passages fom one scroll, imagine the entire Beriyth Chadashah. I don't like to speculate about what "may" be and what may not be... which is why I asked the question.

Thank you for your reply anyway though,
Alex
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