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Mattai 28:1 A question regarding the word 'first of the week
#1
Shalom from New Zealand. In reading Mattai 28, I notice the translation from Aramaic to the English word 'first'. If the sabbath was in twilight what is the meaning here "of the week the first as it was twilight of the Sabbath....". If this is referring to the first day of the week "Sunday' then hopefully you can see where I am coming from...so if someone can supply an explanation I would be grateful before I proceed in the wrong direction with this subject.
Thanks and blessings in Yeshua.
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#2
Shlama Forum:
I'm revising this post. I'm going to eat my words. The "lightening" was dawn, not "hav'dalah".

Shlama,
Stephen
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#3
Shlama Akhi Stephen,

Just wondering, do you hold to the 3 day, 3 night Entombment of Yeshua?

If so, could you please tell me why, if not, could you please tell me why not?

Thanks so much for your time and energy spent on answering this question. I appreciate it!

Peace Be Unto You, Albion
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#4
Shlama Stephen, thank you for your thoughts. So, are you saying that the twilight was at the end of the sabbath day? That "at the lighting up (Gr: epi phosko) into one of the sabbaths came Miriam and the other Miriam to behold the sepulcher." If this was 'into' does this not negate the hypothesis that the sabbath was not ending but just beginning?
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#5
Hi Albion, are you saying something different from what Yeshua stated when He referred to one sign that is the sign of Jonah? The book of Jonah is clear, 3 days AND 3 nights. No contest, no confusion?
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#6
markt Wrote:Shlama Stephen, thank you for your thoughts. So, are you saying that the twilight was at the end of the sabbath day? That "at the lighting up (Gr: epi phosko) into one of the sabbaths came Miriam and the other Miriam to behold the sepulcher." If this was 'into' does this not negate the hypothesis that the sabbath was not ending but just beginning?

Shlama Akhi Mark:
Here is an analysis of Matthew 28:1.

But in the evening of the Shabbat, (This is at the end of the Shabbat)
when the first day of the week was lightening, (again, this sets the time)
Mariam Magdolita and the other Mariam
came to see the sepulchre.

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]tt0 0b4b dx hgnd Fb4b Nyd 04mrb
0rbq Nyzxnd Frx0 Myrmw Fyldgm Myrm
[/font]

There is "welcoming the Shabbat" and lighting of lamps (candles) in the evening of Friday night, but the end of Shabbat is also marked with a lighting of the hav'dala lamp (candle). Simply, the two Mariams came at the dawning of the day. Again, I have revised my post. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

Shlama,
Stephen
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#7
Shlama Markt,

No, I'm saying the same thing as 'The Sign of Yonah'.

3 days, 3 nights entombed.

Shlama, Albion




markt Wrote:Hi Albion, are you saying something different from what Yeshua stated when He referred to one sign that is the sign of Jonah? The book of Jonah is clear, 3 days AND 3 nights. No contest, no confusion?
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#8
As I understand it, in Eastern logic, any part of a day is counted as one day. Friday afternoon counts as one day, Saturday counts as one day, and Sunday morning counts as one day.

Several years ago the so-called "World Wide Church of God" claimed that the "high Sabbath" refered to in the scripture was actually the Passover, which started on Wednesday night in Holy Week. Jesus had already risen by Sunday, so the time in the tomb was Thursday, Friday, and Saturday--three days and three nights.

Food for thought?

Otto
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#9
Dear Otto,

'The World Wide Church of God' was far preceded by 'The Church of God (Seventh Day), of which I am a member of (the Fort Smith, Arkansas Church).

I was immersed there in March, of 1999.

Herbert W. Armstrong was expelled (forcibly removed) from The Church of God (Seventh Day) because he would NOT cease his preaching of the false doctrine of "British Israelism".

The Church of God (Seventh Day) AND "The World Wide Church of God" believed, and STILL believes, that Maran Yeshua was entombed on Wednesday, and Rose at the very end of Shabbat.

Herbert Armstrong believed exactly the same thing about the 3 Day and 3 Night Entombment of Yeshua.

This has been a fundamental part of The Church of God (Seventh Day) doctrine since it's beginning out of the Millerite Movement, in the 1800's.

Just wanted to get the Church of God (Seventh Day) doctrine right.

Thanks for reading my post.

Shlama, Albion


P.S. This would have made Passover beginning at sundown Tuesday Evening, going to sundown Wednesday evening, which also encompasses the time of Our Lord's murder (at around 3:00 PM Wednesday afternoon).






ograabe Wrote:As I understand it, in Eastern logic, any part of a day is counted as one day. Friday afternoon counts as one day, Saturday counts as one day, and Sunday morning counts as one day.

Several years ago the so-called "World Wide Church of God" claimed that the "high Sabbath" refered to in the scripture was actually the Passover, which started on Wednesday night in Holy Week. Jesus had already risen by Sunday, so the time in the tomb was Thursday, Friday, and Saturday--three days and three nights.

Food for thought?

Otto
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#10
Shalom Stephen, in keeping to my question i.e. Mattai 28:1 "of the week the first as it was twilight of the Sabbath now in the evening:...
the discussion so far has veered away. Red herring? Anyway, the translation 'of the week the first' requires further exploration, the twilight of the Sabbath has only ever been explained as the Sabbath 'drawing' on or 'lighting' (of lamps) into the start of the Sabbath. The next part of the text states 'now in the evening', if this is not referring to Friday evening can someone tell me from the Aramaic text how this can make it a Sunday morning? I do however, have much to discuss regarding 3 days and 3 nights BUT wish to get clearer understanding first on the subject of 'evening' OR 'morning'...
Thanks for your input thus far. Hoping to read more about the Peshitta translation....
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#11
markt Wrote:Shalom Stephen, in keeping to my question i.e. Mattai 28:1 "of the week the first as it was twilight of the Sabbath now in the evening:...
the discussion so far has veered away. Red herring? Anyway, the translation 'of the week the first' requires further exploration, the twilight of the Sabbath has only ever been explained as the Sabbath 'drawing' on or 'lighting' (of lamps) into the start of the Sabbath. The next part of the text states 'now in the evening', if this is not referring to Friday evening can someone tell me from the Aramaic text how this can make it a Sunday morning? I do however, have much to discuss regarding 3 days and 3 nights BUT wish to get clearer understanding first on the subject of 'evening' OR 'morning'...
Thanks for your input thus far. Hoping to read more about the Peshitta translation....

Shlama Akhi Mark:
Have a look at the Peshitta text of Matthew 28:1 as is.

But in the evening on Shabbat, that dawns the first of the week
..........[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] 0b4b dx hgnd Fb4b Nyd 04mrb[/font]

came Maryiam Magdalita and the other Mariam to see the sepulchre.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rbq Nyzxnd Frx0 Myrmw Fyldgm Myrm tt0[/font]

This is a fair translation of Matthew 28:1. Let's pick it up from here.

Shlama,
Stephen
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#12
Shalom Stephen, ok if it was 'evening on Shabbat then this can only be as it was lighting up into the Sabbath. Yes? If yes, then how can there be a dawn at the same time? The Miriams came to the tomb yes. They would do so only either before OR after the Shabbat. Yes? And as you say, let's go from here...

Shlama,
Mark
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#13
markt Wrote:Shalom Stephen, ok if it was 'evening on Shabbat then this can only be as it was lighting up into the Sabbath. Yes? If yes, then how can there be a dawn at the same time? The Miriams came to the tomb yes. They would do so only either before OR after the Shabbat. Yes? And as you say, let's go from here...

Shlama,
Mark

But in the evening on Shabbat, that dawns the first of the week
..........[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)] 0b4b dx hgnd Fb4b Nyd 04mrb[/font]

came Maryiam Magdalita and the other Mariam to see the sepulchre.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0rbq Nyzxnd Frx0 Myrmw Fyldgm Myrm tt0[/font]


Shlama Akhi Mark:
Understand that the end of Shabbat technically preceeds the evening of the first day of the week. A day is evening and morning, That particular time of day following Shabbat is then followed by dawn. Unfortunately this verse can not be perfectly linearly translated. It appears in my loose translation into English to be confusing. However, the addition by the gospel writer of d'nagah as well as khad b'shaba sets the time after Shabbat when the two Mariams arrived at the sepulchre. Again, d'nagah khad b'shaba sets the time as dawn of the first of the week following Shabbat.

I hope you're not trying to build a case that shows Yeshua rising on Shabbat. To do so, you would have to ignore [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0b4b dx hgnd[/font] which is that dawns first of the week. I don't want to read too much into your responses but are you confusing [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0b4b[/font] which is of the week with [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Fb4b[/font] which is of Shabbat?

Shlama,
Stephen
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#14
Our Master came out of the tomb early on the 1st day of the week (sunday) while it was still dark...the sun as yet to break forth on the horizon.

The 1st day of the week had begun at sundown saturday evening prior.

For a 7th day resurrection, he would then have had to come out of the tomb before sun-down on Saturday evening....This would make the Scriptures in error in many places.

He rose on the 1st day of the week (Sunday) early in the morning before dawn....as the Scriptures plainly say....

The 1st day of the week started at sun-down on Saturday evening and ended at sun-down on Sunday evening...
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#15
"Khad b'Shaba" (first of seven) in Aramaic is Sunday
"Treyn b'Shaba" (second of seven) in Aramaic is Monday
etc.

The scriptures are clear that He arose on the first day of the week.

+Shamasha Paul
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