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Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24
#23
Shlama Akhi Stephen,

I see you wish to continue on this, so I am glad to.

Why do you insist on calling Jastrow's Targum Dictionary a junk list?

You are the one who said
Quote:I slightly revised my previous post. Either "camel", "beam" or "rope/cable/cord" are correct. There are interesting things that happen when one word has multiple meanings.camel,beam,rope,

I have merely pointed out that the list of Dictionary entries is longer than you seem to think.

"Camel" is the only meaning that makes sense in my view. Listing 3 Greek Gospels as witnesses for "Camel" does not make me a Greek primacist. That is sheer sophistry on your part. What it does is demonstrate that 3 different translators in the 1st century saw "gamla" as "kamelon"- "Camel" . How could 3 different men fluent in both Aramaic and Greek mistake the word in the same way? The "2 or 3 witnesses" principle certainly would be applicable here. "Camel" should be accepted as the correct meaning.

Yet you say:
Quote:That's the short list, David. Who cares if the Greek New Testament translates "gamal" as "camel"
So we throw out evidence if it is convenient to trash it for our position's sake? The Greek is a translation, but a good one and the earliest we know of, and there are 3 synoptic Gospels here to compare.
"Who cares?" Anyone who cares to know the truth, that's who cares.

Again, you wrote:
Quote:Either you stand by your "junk" list or you don't. Is it "Gamaliel" or "Gamla/Zealot fortress" or "ass-driver"? Why not just say, "anything goes"? Not every word from your compiled list is valid in this illustration of "gamal" and "the eye of a needle".

What junk list? Those are valid lexical entries from respected Aramaic dictionaries which you use, one of which you apparently do not have, however CAL uses it (Jastrow's) in its compiled "junk lists" as well. You are the one who seemed to think that all the meanings you have found are valid possiblities, giving
Quote:Either "camel", "beam" or "rope/cable/cord" are correct
. You also wrote:
Quote:In my honest opinion it doesn't matter which English word is used in this passage.
and
Quote:There are interesting things that happen when one word has multiple meanings.

If "it doesn't matter which English word is used", I have simply added to the list of English words "it doesn't matter" which could be used. There are 18 possible meanings. Just because you have considered "beam" and "camel" as your short list does not mean there are not other possibilities, by your method of discernment (whatever that is, I cannot tell).
As to the grammatical point and analogy between camel and rich man, I wrote:
Quote:A camel is a living being, analogous to the rich man, a living being; Both are pictured as attempting to go through an opening. Both are the subject of the same verb "al" -"to enter". A subject performs the action of a sentence. A rope cannot perform action; a beam cannot perform action; certainly neither can "enter" anything. A camel can perform action; it can move on its own power.

Please point out the circularity of my argument, which you assert above:
Quote:I ignore your grammatical analysis because most of your arguments are isogetic/circular and thus grammatically irrelevant.

So, my brother,
Quote: If you have erred in the obvious, just quit".

Blessings,

Dave
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Messages In This Thread
Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by ograabe - 06-26-2008, 11:30 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-02-2008, 08:40 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by yaaqubyl - 07-02-2008, 09:56 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-02-2008, 11:50 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by *Albion* - 07-03-2008, 12:12 AM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-03-2008, 12:58 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by yaaqubyl - 07-03-2008, 10:12 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by ograabe - 07-05-2008, 12:31 AM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-08-2008, 09:42 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-21-2008, 08:50 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-22-2008, 01:47 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-22-2008, 07:37 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-23-2008, 04:19 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-23-2008, 07:15 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-24-2008, 06:58 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-25-2008, 12:13 AM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-25-2008, 01:30 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by ograabe - 07-26-2008, 06:39 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by ograabe - 07-26-2008, 10:18 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-26-2008, 11:16 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by Paul Younan - 07-27-2008, 02:13 AM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by Paul Younan - 07-27-2008, 03:34 AM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by Paul Younan - 07-27-2008, 04:59 AM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-27-2008, 04:03 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by Paul Younan - 07-27-2008, 06:33 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by ograabe - 07-27-2008, 08:20 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-27-2008, 08:34 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by Paul Younan - 07-27-2008, 08:52 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-27-2008, 11:30 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by Amatsyah - 07-27-2008, 11:43 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by *Albion* - 07-28-2008, 04:39 AM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by gbausc - 07-28-2008, 02:21 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by konway87 - 05-19-2010, 12:15 AM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by konway87 - 05-19-2010, 04:34 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by Jerry - 05-22-2010, 05:03 PM
Re: Camel or Rope? Matt: 19:24 - by distazo - 05-23-2010, 06:58 AM

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