03-22-2008, 06:57 PM
Shlama Akhi Chuck,
I must conclude that you cannot answer my questions, since you have ignored them so far. That's OK. You raise some good points, which I will address.
I think I can assume we both believe in the Divine inspiration of scripture and in its supreme authority and infallibility in its original text. There are no textual problems of any consequence in Genesis 1 that I am aware of. The Hebrew mss. all seem to agree as to what was written. The question of "days" -"Yom" is a matter of interpretation, or definition of the Hebrew "Yom" as used in chapter 1.
Scripture was written for people of all times approximately 3500 years ago, when writing was first invented and used. The Bible was also meant to be understood by common people. It was not written for priests only; it was not written only for 21st century astrophysicists. It was written for men and women, boys and girls who lived 1000 BC as well as all who have lived from then till now, from all nations,languages and peoples, of all walks of life. It is very logical to reason that the general import of the written word would be in language that is easy for its audience to understand. If God had meant to say that He took a very long time to create the world, He could certainly have said so in plain language. He could have said "Bra [b]b'Owlam Rav Ha Shamiym v'eth ha Erets" -"He created the heavens and the earth in long ages" [/b] But He said "Shishath yomim eshah Yehovah ha shamim v'eth haerets"- "In six days Jehovah made the Heavens and the earth."
Genesis was one of the first, if not the first written document in Hebrew known to man. The terminology used would have had practically no literary development behind it, certainly not a long history of nuance and varied definitions for simple words like "day" and "night", "sky", "sun', "stars", "sea", etc. The words had been spoken for centuries, but reading and writing were new to them, so there was not a rich history of poetical language at the time. Genesis was the primer of the written Hebrew language, and as a primer, there is not sophisticated and esoteric language to be studied as a scholar would study classical literature and poetry. Genesis is meat and potatos for the mind and soul. It is History of Civ. 101. It is not allegories, parables or poetry. It is simple narrative of simple history from the beginning of creation to Jacob and Joseph in Egypt, 400 years before Moses. Sure, there are some metaphors in Joseph's dreams, but they are explained in the narrative as God explained them to him. We are not left in the dark, wondering what the "seven skinny cows eating the seven fat cows" means.
As to "Yom", There are five possible lexicon definitions:
1. A period of light in a day/night cycle;
2. A period of 24 hours;
3. A general or indefinite concept of time
4. A specific point of time;
5. A period of a year
The normal sense is a 24 hour period. In order to determine which is meant in a passage, we must see how the word occurs when it is used in the various contexts when its meaning is known to fit a particular definition. We cannot simply pick one of the five meanings to suit our opinions and say that we have authority for our position because the word can have that meaning.
"Yom"-"Day" , used in conjunction with a cardinal or ordinal number always refers to a 24 hour day. "Yom" used with "erev" ("evening") & or "boqer" ("morning") always refers to a 24 hour day. Each of the six days of creation is used with both a cardinal or ordinal number and "erev w'boqer" [b]("evening and morning") ! This is a triple shut out! There is simply no way Genesis chapter one is using the word "Yom" to refer to billions or millions, or even thousands of years.
The idea that days one, two and three are billions of years each (cosmological evolutionists, which includes essentially,all old earth proponents, would make six days equal 15 billion years) and that days four, five, six and seven are 24 hours each, is simply nonsense. Each numbered day must be the same as the others. If days 4-7 are determined to be 24 hours each, then we can infer that the others are of the same duration. Surely God could measure time before He made the Sun,Moon and stars.
Another important point: Evolutionists teach and say they believe the earth and planets evolved from the Sun and that the stars in general existed long before the earth, 14 billion years ago, and that the earth evolved about 4.5 billion years ago. Genesis 1 states that the earth was made first and that the Sun, Moon and stars were made on the fourth day, as you rightly pointed out. This is not a minor difference. It is an insurmountable contradiction and clash between two world views: That of The Word of God and that of the world and word of Satan, who continually challenges and disputes the Word of God. "Hath God said?", was his question to Eve in Paradise. "If you are the Son of God...", was his challenge to Yehovah Yeshua immediately after God The Father had spoken from Heaven-"This is My Beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased."
To Hell with Satan and to Hell with his lies!
(And I do not mean to imply that anyone adhering to the old earth theory is of Satan. There are many good Christian people who hold to that view.)
Vive L'ecole de Dieu! (Long live The Word of God)
Dave
I must conclude that you cannot answer my questions, since you have ignored them so far. That's OK. You raise some good points, which I will address.
I think I can assume we both believe in the Divine inspiration of scripture and in its supreme authority and infallibility in its original text. There are no textual problems of any consequence in Genesis 1 that I am aware of. The Hebrew mss. all seem to agree as to what was written. The question of "days" -"Yom" is a matter of interpretation, or definition of the Hebrew "Yom" as used in chapter 1.
Scripture was written for people of all times approximately 3500 years ago, when writing was first invented and used. The Bible was also meant to be understood by common people. It was not written for priests only; it was not written only for 21st century astrophysicists. It was written for men and women, boys and girls who lived 1000 BC as well as all who have lived from then till now, from all nations,languages and peoples, of all walks of life. It is very logical to reason that the general import of the written word would be in language that is easy for its audience to understand. If God had meant to say that He took a very long time to create the world, He could certainly have said so in plain language. He could have said "Bra [b]b'Owlam Rav Ha Shamiym v'eth ha Erets" -"He created the heavens and the earth in long ages" [/b] But He said "Shishath yomim eshah Yehovah ha shamim v'eth haerets"- "In six days Jehovah made the Heavens and the earth."
Genesis was one of the first, if not the first written document in Hebrew known to man. The terminology used would have had practically no literary development behind it, certainly not a long history of nuance and varied definitions for simple words like "day" and "night", "sky", "sun', "stars", "sea", etc. The words had been spoken for centuries, but reading and writing were new to them, so there was not a rich history of poetical language at the time. Genesis was the primer of the written Hebrew language, and as a primer, there is not sophisticated and esoteric language to be studied as a scholar would study classical literature and poetry. Genesis is meat and potatos for the mind and soul. It is History of Civ. 101. It is not allegories, parables or poetry. It is simple narrative of simple history from the beginning of creation to Jacob and Joseph in Egypt, 400 years before Moses. Sure, there are some metaphors in Joseph's dreams, but they are explained in the narrative as God explained them to him. We are not left in the dark, wondering what the "seven skinny cows eating the seven fat cows" means.
As to "Yom", There are five possible lexicon definitions:
1. A period of light in a day/night cycle;
2. A period of 24 hours;
3. A general or indefinite concept of time
4. A specific point of time;
5. A period of a year
The normal sense is a 24 hour period. In order to determine which is meant in a passage, we must see how the word occurs when it is used in the various contexts when its meaning is known to fit a particular definition. We cannot simply pick one of the five meanings to suit our opinions and say that we have authority for our position because the word can have that meaning.
"Yom"-"Day" , used in conjunction with a cardinal or ordinal number always refers to a 24 hour day. "Yom" used with "erev" ("evening") & or "boqer" ("morning") always refers to a 24 hour day. Each of the six days of creation is used with both a cardinal or ordinal number and "erev w'boqer" [b]("evening and morning") ! This is a triple shut out! There is simply no way Genesis chapter one is using the word "Yom" to refer to billions or millions, or even thousands of years.
The idea that days one, two and three are billions of years each (cosmological evolutionists, which includes essentially,all old earth proponents, would make six days equal 15 billion years) and that days four, five, six and seven are 24 hours each, is simply nonsense. Each numbered day must be the same as the others. If days 4-7 are determined to be 24 hours each, then we can infer that the others are of the same duration. Surely God could measure time before He made the Sun,Moon and stars.
Another important point: Evolutionists teach and say they believe the earth and planets evolved from the Sun and that the stars in general existed long before the earth, 14 billion years ago, and that the earth evolved about 4.5 billion years ago. Genesis 1 states that the earth was made first and that the Sun, Moon and stars were made on the fourth day, as you rightly pointed out. This is not a minor difference. It is an insurmountable contradiction and clash between two world views: That of The Word of God and that of the world and word of Satan, who continually challenges and disputes the Word of God. "Hath God said?", was his question to Eve in Paradise. "If you are the Son of God...", was his challenge to Yehovah Yeshua immediately after God The Father had spoken from Heaven-"This is My Beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased."
To Hell with Satan and to Hell with his lies!
(And I do not mean to imply that anyone adhering to the old earth theory is of Satan. There are many good Christian people who hold to that view.)
Vive L'ecole de Dieu! (Long live The Word of God)
Dave