02-10-2008, 12:27 AM
Shlama to you Akhi Dawid,
Perhaps you do not know Trimm as I and others do, and have, for many years. I can't speak to what Akhan Albion discussed with the Way International as I was not there. And my personal feeling is that HRV was not plagiarized, but as I said, I have not had the Way International to compare it with. So this is good example of how careful I try to be, in that even now I am not buying into allegations that have not been proved to my satisfaction according to Torah. So when I tell you there are many other things that I know Trimm did that were not good, hopefully this will give my opinion some weight. I do not do these things capriciously or lightly.
However, while I will not say anything that may expose the forum to liability, I did want to comment on lashon haraa. All too often I have found Netzarim hiding behind this concept when overwhelming evidence of a person's guilt exists from multiple witnesses and can be certified through legal affidavits and hard evidence. This is the case with Trimm. Legal authorities have and will continue to investigate various offenses, both major and minor. Many of these things are not just vain allegations but facts backed up by witnesses and testimony from Trimm's own mouth. As I said, I won't give specifics for the sake of the forum.
I think though that we need to remember that lashon haraa means "false report", and the context from where this term arises, the report of the cowardly spies. Torah does though also allow mechanisms to clearly establish guilt, and these are continued in the NT. Two (or three) witnesses can and do substantiate allegations. And, as I said, in other cases Trimm has confessed in front of many witnesses, online and in public.
I encourage you then to explore these things independently and from multiple sources to satisfy yourself that those of us who have issues with Trimm do not have them from a place of whim or impulse. These problems go back almost 10 years and my concern is that the greatest asset he will have is folks thinking that no hard evidence against him exists, that we are on some kind of unjust witch hunt, or whatever.
I can assure you that I stood by Trimm for years when people were attacking him. I stayed on his fake Beit Din and I allowed myself to be associated with him when friends by the dozen were begging me to leave, trying to show me proof, and I didn't listen until it was too late. I backed him in public and online to my own shame. I tried to prop up his shoody scholarship when even at the time that I was in his corner I knew many things were wrong there. I begged folks for patience when they complained to me about, for lack of a better term, less than timely delivery of things they paid for by him. As I write this I am holding back more than you can possibly imagine, again for the sake of this forum.
My message then to you is, at the risk of repeating myself, don't assume that we are engaged in lashon haraa when we are in possession of facts that you can easily find for yourself. To assume lashon haraa where overwhelming evidence exists in itself lashon haraa. It assumes that we have not done due diligence by the rules of Torah, when I can assure you we have. I do not attack the innocent Dawid. I am slow to anger. It took 6 years before I saw what I needed to see so I didn't come to my conclusions without much prayer, pain and careful discernment. Neither has Akhan Albion, who has an equal amount of deep experience with James Trimm. If it takes you a long time to see what James has done, that is fine with me. All I ask is you keep an open mind as you explore the truth.
Matthew 7 says to not judge, for you will be judged by the standards you apply. I am HAPPY to have myself judged by the standards that I judge Trimm by. You know why? Because I would NEVER do the things he has done. And if I did the smallest thing wrong in that direction as Trimm had, people who have known me for years know that I would repent publically of all errors made publicly. Trimm has not done that for the most part, only when he has been cornered and had no choice. I speak from what I have seen.
Since I can't give specifics, all I can say is that you can see the problems for yourself elsewhere. Just google his name and keep reading. Yes there is some misinformation out there about him, but I have been the first person to defend him when that has happened. But MOST of it is totally true.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
Perhaps you do not know Trimm as I and others do, and have, for many years. I can't speak to what Akhan Albion discussed with the Way International as I was not there. And my personal feeling is that HRV was not plagiarized, but as I said, I have not had the Way International to compare it with. So this is good example of how careful I try to be, in that even now I am not buying into allegations that have not been proved to my satisfaction according to Torah. So when I tell you there are many other things that I know Trimm did that were not good, hopefully this will give my opinion some weight. I do not do these things capriciously or lightly.
However, while I will not say anything that may expose the forum to liability, I did want to comment on lashon haraa. All too often I have found Netzarim hiding behind this concept when overwhelming evidence of a person's guilt exists from multiple witnesses and can be certified through legal affidavits and hard evidence. This is the case with Trimm. Legal authorities have and will continue to investigate various offenses, both major and minor. Many of these things are not just vain allegations but facts backed up by witnesses and testimony from Trimm's own mouth. As I said, I won't give specifics for the sake of the forum.
I think though that we need to remember that lashon haraa means "false report", and the context from where this term arises, the report of the cowardly spies. Torah does though also allow mechanisms to clearly establish guilt, and these are continued in the NT. Two (or three) witnesses can and do substantiate allegations. And, as I said, in other cases Trimm has confessed in front of many witnesses, online and in public.
I encourage you then to explore these things independently and from multiple sources to satisfy yourself that those of us who have issues with Trimm do not have them from a place of whim or impulse. These problems go back almost 10 years and my concern is that the greatest asset he will have is folks thinking that no hard evidence against him exists, that we are on some kind of unjust witch hunt, or whatever.
I can assure you that I stood by Trimm for years when people were attacking him. I stayed on his fake Beit Din and I allowed myself to be associated with him when friends by the dozen were begging me to leave, trying to show me proof, and I didn't listen until it was too late. I backed him in public and online to my own shame. I tried to prop up his shoody scholarship when even at the time that I was in his corner I knew many things were wrong there. I begged folks for patience when they complained to me about, for lack of a better term, less than timely delivery of things they paid for by him. As I write this I am holding back more than you can possibly imagine, again for the sake of this forum.
My message then to you is, at the risk of repeating myself, don't assume that we are engaged in lashon haraa when we are in possession of facts that you can easily find for yourself. To assume lashon haraa where overwhelming evidence exists in itself lashon haraa. It assumes that we have not done due diligence by the rules of Torah, when I can assure you we have. I do not attack the innocent Dawid. I am slow to anger. It took 6 years before I saw what I needed to see so I didn't come to my conclusions without much prayer, pain and careful discernment. Neither has Akhan Albion, who has an equal amount of deep experience with James Trimm. If it takes you a long time to see what James has done, that is fine with me. All I ask is you keep an open mind as you explore the truth.
Matthew 7 says to not judge, for you will be judged by the standards you apply. I am HAPPY to have myself judged by the standards that I judge Trimm by. You know why? Because I would NEVER do the things he has done. And if I did the smallest thing wrong in that direction as Trimm had, people who have known me for years know that I would repent publically of all errors made publicly. Trimm has not done that for the most part, only when he has been cornered and had no choice. I speak from what I have seen.
Since I can't give specifics, all I can say is that you can see the problems for yourself elsewhere. Just google his name and keep reading. Yes there is some misinformation out there about him, but I have been the first person to defend him when that has happened. But MOST of it is totally true.
Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth