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Get a load of this....
Chaldean Bishop Sarhad Yawsip Jammo Wrote:Jan 14, 2008

Chaldeans and Assyrians:
Reading the compass
by: Bishop Sarhad Yawsip Jammo

For Chaldeans and Assyrians, it is imperative that the year 2008 be a time for decisive orientation. These are the uncharted waters engulfing them:

An Apostolic Church Sailing through the Tempest:

The results of the protracted agony of the Church in Iraq and the massive and continuous exodus of Christians for the last two decades have left their marks on all levels of ecclesiastic life: diocesan, parochial, monastic, educational, social,
economic???etc. The impact is so overwhelming that the survival of Christianity in the Arabic part of Iraq is a real issue for the whole civilized world to consider.

Is the ongoing persecution of Christians in most of Iraq--outside Kurdistan--a momentary outburst of fanatic fundamentalists, or is it a policy that the ruling forces of the New Iraq are adopting, or, at least, accepting implicitly? Despite the heroic attitude of the Chaldean Patriarch and of many of the Church hierarchs, who remain in their seats and continue to be faithful to their pastoral duties, their flocks, in massive numbers, have had no choice but to leave, with bitterness, their homes and country.

After years of wandering in adjacent countries, or running from land to land in search of settlement, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Christians are now torn between going back to Iraq, hoping against hope for a tolerable future, and giving up definitely on the expectation of equal rights and decent life in their ancestral land, then proceeding though deeply wounded and empty-handed, towards the unknown. Visas, since the end of 2007, to some European countries and to the United States have alleviated the pains of many, but legions more are still waiting in desolated conditions.

Facing Destiny: Fragmented or Together?

The tempest has been fully raging for some decades now; its destructive force remains an ongoing tragedy. At this junction of history, it is incumbent on Chaldeans and Assyrians to face it and deal with it, on ecclesial terms as well as on civil ones - i.e. as a people with specific ethnicity and culture, and as a Church with its particular heritage, but most of all as leaders of both communities, they have two options: shall they face their destiny separately or together?

Deciding for a unified Church and people is a choice that entails challenging consequences on each sector of the matter, and triggers a movement on a course that Chaldeans & Assyrians must outline and tackle together. Throughout our history we have lost so many opportunities; will we now rise up to the challenge? Time, here, is of the essence.

News Archives
Copyright ??2002-2008

....and exactly what does a "Unified Church" model look like, Bishop Jammo? One that requires the CoE to accept Papal Primacy, as you who have sold your mother church have done......I presume?

Your not-so-secret-anymore "Plan G" has already unraveled, we know now who the players thanks, the answer to your question is: we "shall" face our destiny alone, and you "shall" face your destiny with the Pope.

Have a great day!
Paul Younan Wrote:....and exactly what does a "Unified Church" model look like, Bishop Jammo? One that requires the CoE to accept Papal Primacy, as you who have sold your mother church have done......I presume?

Your not-so-secret-anymore "Plan G" has already unraveled, we know now who the players thanks, the answer to your question is: we "shall" face our destiny alone, and you "shall" face your destiny with the Pope.

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Amen to that!
In spite of it's many enemies, the Assyrian Church of the East is NEVER ALONE:

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Aw-mayn w'aw-mayn Akhi Paul!

I think I understand all too well the need for my brother Semites, those from across as we like to say, to have a homeland of their own, or at the very least to return to their ancestral lands and be left alone.

Your people and the COE no more want "Catholic unity" than mine do. First they say to "respect" the papal descent, which then means you are, after 2000 years, finally under their thumb. Then they will tell you to bow and repent YOUR apostolic succession since after all Mar Keefa founded Rome and the reference to Babylon didn't mean Babylon...and on it goes. This is of course AFTER calling you by a name for 1600 years that had to do with a bishop from CONSTANTINOPLE, as if to say your Assembly doesn't pre date theirs when we know it does??? I feel this passion without even being a COE memeber, let alone a deacon, so I can only imagine how you feel Akhi Paul. I'll take one Qasha Klutz over anything Rome has to offer any day of the week.

And before anyone asks, this has nothing to do with the THEOLOGY of Rome or even individual Catholics and their beliefs but the HISTORICAL POLICY AND IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT POLICY IN THE RECORD. They got the SOC and Chaldean assemblies to join them (although I think the latter was kind of amalgamation supervised by Rome but I need to check to be sure) and now they are after one of the last true Semitic witnesses to the original Aramaic Word. We should make no mistake, if they succeed, it's the final victory of Constantine, nothing more and nothing less. They want to finish what they started, and if anyone doubts this or thinks I am over-blowing this, just read history. And if anyone doubts they would not use thier new-found influence to also alter that Peshitta or try to, I say again, read history. They did all these things before...

I remain though extremely hopeful the COE will always resist this. I am about as likely to encourage my brethren to join Rome as the COE is likely to do that as well, in my opinion. Don't let it happen--now or ever.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
Akhay Andrew and Yaaqub,

Notice how slyly this snake throws in the "on ecclesial (sic) terms as well as on civil ones".


OK, the Christians (both Chaldean and Assyrian) in Iraq are suffering. Let them unite on civil terms, in a civil manner. Why does he have to throw in ecclesiastical terms as well? Does one have anything to do with the other?

I am all for throwing a life line to the Christians suffering persecution in Iraq, but why does there have to be a Pope at the end of that Rope? <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

PS - Akhi Andrew, did you read Plan G?
Shlama Akhi Paul,

Actually until you mentioned this, I had NOT read Plan G. Now that I have, I find myself more worried that Machiavellian tactics were done internally and externally. But I am also heartened that both the Synod at the COE and even the court system stood up and did the right thing. We are seeing these kind of plays from the Enemy on the Netzari side too. No doubt you have heard the latest on what happened to James Trimm and the unfolding Michael Rood saga.

I also remember some time ago when you told me of person in the COE, a priest I think, who was actively going against COE position on Peshitta primacy and some other core things, so I suppose the raising of a dissident to do this kind of thing was inevitable. This guy practically threatened the Patriarch and his retinue with violence! That would be like James, the leader of the Jerusalem Rosh Beit Din, getting a letter like this:

Yo Jake,

Like, I got your instructions and all about not drinking blood, idol worship and not eating that meat, but I really have to say, you have no right to lecture me. So, we're going to stop off at that Diana temple in Ephesus, which we hear is great, do a few rites, pick up some temple servant ladies, roast a pig, and then we'll get back to you. Meanwhile, I'm tearing up this letter of yours and writing my own instead, and if you send any of your folks to check on me, we sure hope the long journey doesn't hurt them and that they make it back without too many injuries.

Love and kisses,
Bar D'Abdana

Thanks be to MarYah that such a monstrosity never issued from the pen of the holy apostles. Therefore if someone claims to do these things in Yah's name, they are a liar and there is neither truth nor love in them. I could say more, but I think you know the depths of my passion in this regard.

As for Bar D'Abdana's modern day equivalent, for a guy who is supposed to know the Aramaic NT and teach it to the faithful, I have to conclude it's lessons on love, respect and peace were just a tad skipped over, eh? Can anyone say Ya'akov 3:1??? And I would say to him--"Are you not a teacher of Semites and Gentiles and know not these things??"

Other than that, no problem! <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew "Bar Raghshee" Gabriel Roth
ROFLLMAO! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->

I'm currently reading Asahel Grant's "The Nestorians; Or, The Lost Tribes" and came across a section in the book that reminded me of this thread:

Quote:"Monday was spent in attendance upon the sick, in general intercourse with the people, and preparations for the continuance of my journey. I gave medicine to forty or fifty of the soldiers, and received the warmest thanks of the governor, who made me his guest. He said it was God who had sent me for their relief, when they had neither physician to prescribe nor medicine to alleviate their sufferings. The Nestorian priest lamented the low state to which their Church had been reduced, and said he feared that the people, in their gross ignorance, would fall a sacrifice to the wiles of the papists; who, he had been told, were about to make more vigorous efforts than ever to convert the whole of his people to Romanism.

He told a sad tale of their past efforts and success, stating that his own father was bastinadoed [???] to compel him to become a Roman Catholic! The papists in Mesopotamia have assured me that no effort will be spared to convert the whole of the Nestorian Church to their faith; and this report is confirmed by letters since received from Bagdad, one of which says that three bishops and priests, educated at the Progaganda, were 'about going to Mosul to hold a convention to devise measures to bring over all the Nestorians to the Romish faith!'...With God and truth on our side, we have nothing to fear, if the Church will come up to her duty.

The Nestorians have nobly stood their ground, and they are still upon the watch-tower. As I approached their mountain fastnesses, their first inquiry was to know whether I was a "Catoleek;' declaring that they would not permit these 'wolves in sheep's clothing' to enter their country. Hitherto they have prevented the emissaries of Rome from entering their mountains. But the latter are looking with eagerness to this interesting field; and, while they are extending their labours in the East, no effort will be spared to spread their influence among the mountain tribes. Will Protestant Christians, to whom the Nestorians are stretching out their hands for help, suffer the golden harvest to fall into the garner of the pope?"
Akhi Yaaqub,

Have you seen this new book?

I want to pick up a copy, looks very interesting. Asahel's book and life have always fascinated me.

Thanks for the link. Looks like this will be in my library very soon. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->
Quote:"The building at Lezan, [Grant] noted, resembled every other Nestorian church he saw in the mountains. These structures, spare and simple, bore little resemblance to churches elsewhere. Several features stood out. First was their strength. Some, according to their records, had stood for over fourteen centuries when Grant saw them. Heavy stones, mortared with lime cement, were the only materials used. Yet these alone would have done little to ensure their longevity had not their roofs and portals employed the catenary arch, a building technique unknown to many mountain Kurds and a testament to the Nestorians' origins in Mesopotamia. In May 1977 I saw such a church in the village of Kespiyanish, near Beyt??ssebap, in Hakkari. It was utterly bare, yet intact, a structure no doubt centuries old and likely to last for centuries more. The Kurds of Kespiyanish marveled at the church's construction: "These people were rich!" they declared, and it was useless to argue with them. The oddest feature of a Nestorian church was its entry, and in this the Kespiyanish church matched the pattern described by nineteenth-century visitors to Hakkari. According to Thomas Laurie, the mountain tribes quoted Matthew 7:14 ("strait is the gate and narrow is the way") to explain it. Imagine a bare stone structure, some twenty feet on a side, surmounted by a vaulted roof. No windows were visible; the walls were a foot thick. Piercing the facade was an arched portal, perhaps three feet high, more like the entrance to a cave than a house of worship. The threshold barrier reached to knee-height, and in order to enter the visitor had to step over it with one leg and bend almost double to avoid hitting his head. Inside was a tiny vestibule, then two stone columns and another arch leading to the sanctuary. There, in a bare grotto the size of an average suburban living room, two square openings high upon the ceiling pierced the blackness of the dome. Such was the typical church of the mountain Nestorians. These were monuments to insecurity, masonry vaults that could be neither attacked, defended, nor modified, and in the end served for two things only: worship services and the preservation of sacred texts. In them Christianity survived from late Roman times until 1915."

--Fever and Thirst, Chapter 7

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