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Christ's OT quotes and Pshitta primacy
#16
Matthew 12:18, referencing Isaiah 42:1-3....

[Image: matt1218.jpg]

The NT author clearly did not base his quotation on the LXX. Dave should pay particular attention here.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#17
More paraphrasing...

[Image: matt1335.jpg]
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#18
Matthew 15:4, referencing Exodus 21:17...

[Image: matt154.jpg]

Notice the LXX says "shall surely die" vs. the GNT's "let him die", and "reviles" vs. the GNT's "speaketh evil."
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#19
Matthew 18:16 (Deuteronomy 19:15):

[Image: matt1816.jpg]

Not a quote from the LXX
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#20
2 Corinthians 13:1 (Deuteronomy 19:15)

[Image: 2cor131.jpg]

Paul isn't using the LXX here...
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#21
Matthew 19:7 and Matthew 5:31 (Deuteronomy 24.1)

[Image: matt197.jpg]

If you ever needed a case of paraphrasing....
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#22
....to be continued with all books of the New Testament.....
(taking a breather)
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#23
Thanks for the information and examples.

So is it fair to conclude therefore, that in both the Greek and Aramaic NT's, Christ's references to OT passages are not verbatim anyway in either instance?
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#24
The Lector Wrote:Hello

I would like to ask a question please, sorry if this has been answered elsewhere and I missed it.

One of the major arguments I have heard used by Greek primacists is that Christ quotes the OT in the Greek NT word-for-word, which is apparently to show the accuracy of the Septuagint.

Even in greek Jesus does not quote the septuagint as this article by Proffessor Craig A evans demonstrates.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-jesus-favored-old-testament-textual-manuscript.htm">http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-jesus-favor ... script.htm</a><!-- m -->

Quote:Did Jesus recognize a specific text form of scripture? It does not appear so, for his usage of scripture is allusive, paraphrastic, and-so far as it can be ascertained-eclectic. We find agreement with the proto-Masoretic text, with the Hebrew under-lying the Septuagint (perhaps even the Septuagint itself), and with the Aramaic para-phrase. Several examples from each category will illustrate the phenomena. The examples that are chosen are the most obvious, in that they stand over against the readings in the other versions
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#25
The Lector Wrote:Thanks for the information and examples.

So is it fair to conclude therefore, that in both the Greek and Aramaic NT's, Christ's references to OT passages are not verbatim anyway in either instance?

That is true.

However, that being said, there are documented cases where Greek scribes went back and .....

(a) modified the LXX to conform to NT readings (e.g., Romans 3:13-18). This is particularly noticable in a manuscript of the LXX by the name of Codex Alexandrinus.

(b) standardized the GNT to conform to LXX readings.

With both of these things in mind, as you can see, we have no way of knowing what to make of GNT OT quotes. Meshikha certainly didn't use it.

Think about the absurdity of the idea that Meshikha, while preaching in Aramaic, should quote the LXX.

What? He broke into Greek all of a sudden in the middle of his Aramaic sermon? The LXX is in Greek, isn't it? How could He have quoted a Greek text in an Aramaic sermon?

It's ludicrous, the very idea.

It's much more reasonable to suggest that Luke, or Paul maybe used the LXX.....however, I'm going to put that to rest once and for all as well. These people simply didn't consider a translation as authoritative. They used some paraphrasing, and in other cases they remembered the exact reading from some pre-MSS Hebrew text that happened to agree with the reading in the LXX simply because the LXX was based in part on it.

People at that time simply didn't quote anything....nobody sat writing their Gospel or Epistle with a Hebrew OT (much less Greek OT) in front of them.....and I'm going to prove it from the GNT itself.
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#26
judge Wrote:
The Lector Wrote:Hello

I would like to ask a question please, sorry if this has been answered elsewhere and I missed it.

One of the major arguments I have heard used by Greek primacists is that Christ quotes the OT in the Greek NT word-for-word, which is apparently to show the accuracy of the Septuagint.

Even in greek Jesus does not quote the septuagint as this article by Proffessor Craig A evans demonstrates.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-jesus-favored-old-testament-textual-manuscript.htm">http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-jesus-favor ... script.htm</a><!-- m -->

Quote:Did Jesus recognize a specific text form of scripture? It does not appear so, for his usage of scripture is allusive, paraphrastic, and-so far as it can be ascertained-eclectic. We find agreement with the proto-Masoretic text, with the Hebrew under-lying the Septuagint (perhaps even the Septuagint itself), and with the Aramaic para-phrase. Several examples from each category will illustrate the phenomena. The examples that are chosen are the most obvious, in that they stand over against the readings in the other versions

Thanks Akhi Michael, I was looking for that quote. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
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#27
Matthew 19:18-19 (Exodus 20.12-16)

[Image: matt1818b.jpg]
[Image: matt1918c.jpg]

Another example of a paraphrase. Notice the GNT does not match the word-order of the LXX, or the MSS for that matter.
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#28
Mark 10:19 (Exodus 20.12-16)

[Image: mark1019.jpg]
[Image: mark1019b.jpg]

The Markan Parallel to the Matthean example above. Notice the GNT does not match the word-order of the LXX, or the MSS for that matter. Not only that, but whereas the GNT is in the Imperative tense, the LXX is not!

Also notice, the addition of "Do not defraud" in the Marcan recension. Definitely not the LXX here, is it Dave?

Dave, O Dave, where art thou? <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#29
Luke 18:20 (Exodus 20.12-16)

[Image: luke1820.jpg]
[Image: luke1820b.jpg]

The Lucan Parallel. Notice it's completely different in tense and word order.

This is, of course, proof for Dave of his wonderful, beloved GNT quoting the LXX and being consistent! NOT! <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#30
Matthew 21:5 (Isaiah 62.11)

[Image: matt215c.jpg]

Dave! Come forth and defend thy GNT!

Notice, the LXX reads "Saviour" whereas the GNT reads "King!"

How'd that happen, Dave? I thought you said that the GNT quotes the Septuagint???
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