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Difference between CoE and "Ancient Church of the East&
#1
Could someone explain the difference between the Assyrian Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East? They appear to be two separate bodies. I've also heard of the "Nasari Church of the East".Is this connected to the CoE?



Thanks.


Jerry.
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#2
jfranklin Wrote:Could someone explain the difference between the Assyrian Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East? They appear to be two separate bodies. I've also heard of the "Nasari Church of the East".Is this connected to the CoE?

Hi Jerry,

They are the same body, basically. The Ancient Church of the East broke with the Church of the East over the issue of the calendar. The Patriarch before the current one, his name was Mar Eshai Shimun, changed the calendar of the church from the Julian to the Gregorian.

This angered some folks, particularly those in India and Iraq, and they elected another Patriarch - the Metropolitan of India. He was then succeeded by Mar Addai, who currently is in Iraq.

The rightful Patriarch - Mar Eshai Shimun, was murdered by an Iraqi agent in San Francisco who was sent by Saddam Hussein.

He was succeeded by the current Patriarch, Mar Dinkha.

Hope that made sense. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

PS - My grandmother went to the ancient side, so I attend both parishes. There's really no difference, except the calendar and the Patriarch. They are trying to resolve their differences and unite again.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#3
<!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->

Thanks brother Paul! I appreciate the info. Very interesting!
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#4
Thanks for this information Paul. And if I may interject, as late as I am, the Nasrani Church of the East, of which I am a member, is not connected to the Assyrian Church of the East as far as ecclesiastical communion ties are concerned, but theologically they are almost identical. There are ten Sacraments in the NCoE while, if I am not mistaken, seven in the ACoE.

I made some friends with a few Assyrian CoE members when I was briefly living in India but unfortunately lost contact with them. We had great conversations about the "differences" in theology/history/etc. and I learned a lot about the Assyrians and the persecutions they have endured. My Church has the utmost respect and honor toward the Assyrian Christians and in my monastery we have a special section in the Liturgy that is a prayer for the protection of the Assyrian peoples and their homeland.

God bless,
James
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#5
jamescole Wrote:Thanks for this information Paul. And if I may interject, as late as I am, the Nasrani Church of the East, of which I am a member, is not connected to the Assyrian Church of the East as far as ecclesiastical communion ties are concerned, but theologically they are almost identical. There are ten Sacraments in the NCoE while, if I am not mistaken, seven in the ACoE.

I believe in the [Assyrian]CoE, wasn't aware of a difference betweent "Ancient Church of the East" and "CoE"/"Assyrian CoE" until reading this thread, the typical seven minus the Last Rites and Marriage (recently reconfirmed by a synod as not a sacrament, I believe), and plus Holy Leaven and the Sign of the Cross. Speaking of the Sign of the Cross, how is it is traditionally done in the Assyrian CoE, number of fingers and directions (Forehead, Stomach, right shoulder then to left shoulder? Or up, down, left to right? Etc.)
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#6
Hi Craig,

The sign is traditionally done with the three fingers (thumb, index and middle) of the right hand starting at the mouth, then forehead - stomach - right shoulder - left shoulder.

The reunion of the two halves (ancient & modern calendar) is close at hand. The Synod you spoke of additionally declared that all the ecclesial orders of the ancient side (priests, deacons, bishops, metropolitans and even the patriarch) will be recognized in a future union (which may mean two Patriarchs, until one dies.) This has happened several times in our history, incidentally (dual patriarchates arising from some dispute or other.)
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#7
Paul Younan Wrote:Hi Craig,

The sign is traditionally done with the three fingers (thumb, index and middle) of the right hand starting at the mouth, then forehead - stomach - right shoulder - left shoulder.

That's pretty much identical to the Eastern (Dyophysite) Orthodox and the original Roman Catholic (before they switched left to right in the Middle Ages), three extended fingers for Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the two lower fingers against the palm for the human and divine natures of Christ, with the exception of starting at the mouth. Does any know any traditional reasons for starting at the mouth?
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#8
Hi Craig,

It's like a symbolic kissing gesture, I suppose. It (along with what she called "reversed crossing") annoyed my formerly Roman Catholic wife - it's interesting to know that's the way they did it back when.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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