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A word if I may
#1
Let me commence by congratulating the mods, administration and the members in general for posting their thoughts in a such way that others like myself are able to learn about some of the more interesting facets of religion. Clarity is a wonderful thing in an otherwise complex topic.

I'm but a lonely traveler whereby my journey has brought me here to this site and I now find myself in need of some guidance before I'm to depart. Hopefully someone will be able to help me on my way. <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->

In my quest for truth I've been led to a Syrian translation of the bible known as the Peshitta. I've been told, though I suspect falsely, this translation is supposed to contain the word "Sepharad" or one of its forms and that it signifies the lands of Spain or Iberia.

Could any wise member confirm if this is indeed true and where exactly I can find this rare word, either in its original language or in English, in the Syrian Peshitta?

Kind regards.
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#2
Greetings Raymond,

Ro 15:24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company.
[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]Nwktzxb tmsbt0 ygs Nm lylqd 0m Nmtl ynnwwlt Nwtn0w Nwkyzx0w 0t0d 0n0 rbsm 0ynps0l 0n0 lzad am [/font]Ro 15:24

Ro 15:28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.

[font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0ynps0l Nwkyl9 0n0 rb9 00nh 0sd0 Nwhl tmtxw trmgd 0m lykh 0dh [/font]Ro 15:28

The Aramaic word is "Espania", a transliteration of the Latin term.

Peace and blessings,

Dave
Get my NT translations, books & articles at :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com
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#3
Greetings again Raymond,

I was hasty in my first reponse.
"Separa" can refer to the "remote borders or coasts of the inhabited world", according to Smith's Compendious Syriac Dictionary, though I don't see it used in reference to Spain, in The Peshitta, it is used in Matthew 13:48 to refer to "the shores" of the sea, but not remote shores in that place.


Spain definitely would have qualified at that time (NT times) as a remote shore of the inhabited world.

Blessings,

Dave Bauscher
Get my NT translations, books & articles at :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com
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#4
I hope I don't weary you, Raymond, but I think I have found the reference you were looking for.
It is in The Peshitta and Hebrew OT, Obadiah, 1:20. The Hebrew uses the word "Sepharad"
Ob 1:20 And the captivity <01546> of this host <02426> of the children <01121> of Israel <03478> shall possess that of the Canaanites <03669>, even unto Zarephath <06886>; and the captivity <01546> of Jerusalem <03389>, which is in Sepharad <05614>, shall possess <03423> (8799) the cities <05892> of the south <05045>.

bgnh yr( t) wsry drpsb rs) Mlswry tlgw tpru-d( Mynenk-rs) l)rvy ynbl hzh-lxh tlgw Ob 1:20



Strong's Hebrew Lexicon:
Quote: 05614 drpo C@pharad sef-aw-rawd???

of foreign derivation; ; n pr loc

AV-Sepharad 1; 1

Sepharad =" separated"

1) a place where Israelites were exiled; site unknown

Guess what word The OT Peshitta uses in that place ?
Yes, "Espania".

Apparently at the time of the captivity of Jerusalem, there were Jews exiled to camps in Spain, some 6 centuries B.C.
(Please excuse my Hebrew fonts in Obadiah).
Very interesting find.

Dave
Get my NT translations, books & articles at :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com
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#5
gbausc Wrote:Greetings again Raymond,

in The Peshitta, it is used in Matthew 13:48 to refer to "the shores" of the sea, but not remote shores in that place.

Blessings,

Dave Bauscher

Greetings gbausc,

Does your "it" in your quote above mean the actual word "Sepharad"?

In my English version(James Murdoch) of the Peshitta, Matthew 13:48 states the following:

----------------------------------------------
36 Then Jesus sent away the multitudes, and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, and said: Explain to us the similitude of the tares and the field.
37 And he answered, and said to them: He that soweth the good seed, is the Son of God.
38 And the field is the world. And the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked One.
39 The enemy that sowed them, is Satan. The harvest is the end of the world : and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so will it be in the end of the world.
41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all the stumbling blocks, and all the doers of evil;
42 and will cast them into a furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then will the righteous shine as the sun, in the kingdom of their Father. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a treasure that is hid in a field; which when a man findeth, he concealeth it, and, from his joy, he goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchantman, who sought after rich pearls:
46 and when he found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a sweep net, which was cast into the sea, and collected [fishes] of every kind.
48 And when it was full, they drew it to the shores of the sea; and they sat down and culled over: and the good they put into vessels, and the bad they cast away.
49 So will it be in the end of the world. The angels will go forth, and will sever the wicked from among the just;
50 and will cast them into a furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
---------------------------------------------------

I don't see the actual word "Sepharad" or any form of it being used in Matthew 13:48.

1) Does the original Syrian translation of the Peshitta use the actual word "Sepharad" or any of its forms in Matthew 13:48?

2) Is there a site or a book I can view or purchase where the Syrian Peshitta is shown in its original language, I presume Aramaic or Syrian?

Raymond
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#6
gbausc Wrote:It is in The Peshitta and Hebrew OT, Obadiah, 1:20. The Hebrew uses the word "Sepharad"
Dave

Greetings gbausc,

With respects to the Peshitta only, where exactly is the word "Sepharad" or one of its forms? I'm mostlty interested in finding this word in the Syrian version of the oldest Peshitta.

I don't believe the Syrian Peshitta has the book of Obadiah included in it or am I missing something?

Many thanks,

Raymond
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#7
Hello Raymond,

Matthew 13:48 in the Peshitta has the ARamaic word "Separa" or "Sephara" which is the Aramaic cognate of the Hebrew word "Sepharad". Both words words refer to "the sea coast". Sometimes they refer to remote places across the sea, as apparently in the Hebrew of Obadiah 1:20, in the Old Testament.
The Old Testament version of The Peshitta translates from the Hebrew OT. It translates
"Sepharad" into "Espania" ("Spain").
This is the only Bible reference to "Sepharad" .
The meaning is as I quoted above in my third post to you.
The OT Peshitta is very old, perhaps one or two centuries B.C. ; It is quoted in the Peshitta NT book of Hebrews extensively as well as in other NT books written (NT Peshitta), as I and others here believe, in the first century as the original text.

Blessings,

Dave
Get my NT translations, books & articles at :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com
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#8
gbausc Wrote:Hello Raymond,

Matthew 13:48 in the Peshitta has the ARamaic word "Separa" or "Sephara" which is the Aramaic cognate of the Hebrew word "Sepharad". Both words words refer to "the sea coast". Sometimes they refer to remote places across the sea, as apparently in the Hebrew of Obadiah 1:20, in the Old Testament.
The Old Testament version of The Peshitta translates from the Hebrew OT. It translates
"Sepharad" into "Espania" ("Spain").
This is the only Bible reference to "Sepharad" .
The meaning is as I quoted above in my third post to you.
The OT Peshitta is very old, perhaps one or two centuries B.C. ; It is quoted in the Peshitta NT book of Hebrews extensively as well as in other NT books written (NT Peshitta), as I and others here believe, in the first century as the original text.

Blessings,

Dave

Greetings gbausc,

Right, there's no actual word "Sepharad" in the Syrian Peshitta but the word "separa" is found in Matthew 13:48 which means "sea coast".

So from the Syrian Peshitta, the Hebrews translated the Aramaic word "separa" which means "sea coast" into their own language as "Sepharad" giving it the new meaning of "Spain". Fully understood.

Now this in turn begs another the question, in the Syrian Peshitta at Romans 15:24 the below is written:

"when I go to Spain, I hope to come and see you; and that ye will accompany me thither, when I shall have been satisfied, in some measure, with visiting you."

Could you tell me what word is the Aramaic language, in the Syrian Peshitta, using for "Spain" here in Romans 15:24?

blessings,

Raymond
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#9
Greetings Raymond,

The answer is in my first post to you:
"Espania"- the same word the Old Testament Syriac Peshitta uses for "Sepharad" in Obadiah 1:20.

Peace be with you,
Get my NT translations, books & articles at :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com
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#10
gbausc Wrote:Greetings Raymond,

The answer is in my first post to you:
"Espania"- the same word the Old Testament Syriac Peshitta uses for "Sepharad" in Obadiah 1:20.

Peace be with you,


Greetings gbausc,

I understand now!? There's the Old Testament Peshitta and the New Testament Peshitta. <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->

Right, I was unaware of this and thought there was only one.

So the New Testament Peshitta has the following:

1) In Mathew 13:48, this Peshitta does not have the the word "Sepharad" but only the word "separa" meaning "sea coast".

2) In Romans 15:24, this Peshitta does not have the word "Sepharad" but the actual word "Espania".

3) This New Testament Peshitta does not have the book of Obadiah.


Now the Old Testament Peshitta has the following:

1) It's in this "Old Testament Peshitta" that has the book of Obadiah which itself has the word "Sepharad".

Have I got it gbausc? <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: -->

Blessings,
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#11
Yes Raymond,

Well, almost, you see, The Old Testament verse with "Sepharad" is in The Hebrew Bible, not The Peshitta. The Old Testament Peshitta for that same verse - Obadiah 1:20- has the word "Espania" for the Hebrew word "Sepharad".
So The Peshitta uses "Espania" ("Spain")for "Sepharad" in Obadiah 1:20 and also uses "Espania" in The NT at Romans 15:24 and also at Romans 15:28 .


And now I dub thee, "Sir Raymond of the high and holy order of The Sepharad";
Go and bear these tidings far and wide ,that very few have ever known.

Amen and Amen.

All kidding aside, this has been quite a learning experience for me. I never knew that there were Jews exiled to Spain over two thousand years ago, and that they live there to this day and have migrated to Turkey, Italy, and other countries from there. There is quite a bit of history on them to be found on the internet by searching "Sepharad" on Google.com


Blessings,


Dave Bauscher
Get my NT translations, books & articles at :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com
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#12
gbausc Wrote:Yes Raymond,

Well, almost, you see, The Old Testament verse with "Sepharad" is in The Hebrew Bible, not The Peshitta. The Old Testament Peshitta for that same verse - Obadiah 1:20- has the word "Espania" for the Hebrew word "Sepharad".
So The Peshitta uses "Espania" ("Spain")for "Sepharad" in Obadiah 1:20 and also uses "Espania" in The NT at Romans 15:24 and also at Romans 15:28 .

Dave Bauscher

I understand now, the Old Testament Hebrew bible has word "Sepharad" in their book of Obadiah while the Old Testament Peshitta has the word "Espania" instead of the word "Sepharad".

Do you know where I can obtain a copy, either in English or Aramaic, of this Old Testament Peshitta which has the word "Espania" in it?

Kind regards,

Raymond
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#13
Shlama Raymond,


Aramaicbooks.com

Try the following link:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.e-web-presence.com/aramaicbooks/default.php?cPath=37">http://www.e-web-presence.com/aramaicbo ... p?cPath=37</a><!-- m -->

George Lamsa translated the entire Peshitta Bible into English. I have that and The Syriac Bible. I believe you can obtain the Syriac Bible from the above web site. I don't know about Lamsa's translation. Most large internet book stores , like Amazon.com will have it.

Aramaicbooks.com is owned by Dean Dana,
a moderator of this forum. He has the largest specialized collection of Aramaic publications I know of.

asta luego,

Dave
Get my NT translations, books & articles at :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com
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#14
gbausc Wrote:Shlama Raymond,


Aramaicbooks.com

Try the following link:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.e-web-presence.com/aramaicbooks/default.php?cPath=37">http://www.e-web-presence.com/aramaicbo ... p?cPath=37</a><!-- m -->

George Lamsa translated the entire Peshitta Bible into English. I have that and The Syriac Bible. I believe you can obtain the Syriac Bible from the above web site. I don't know about Lamsa's translation. Most large internet book stores , like Amazon.com will have it.

Aramaicbooks.com is owned by Dean Dana,
a moderator of this forum. He has the largest specialized collection of Aramaic publications I know of.

asta luego,

Dave

Hello again Dave,

I've come across the Lamsa English translations before but I didn't see one with the Old Testament Peshitta in the heading.

Since you already have two books that mention the word "Espania" in the book of Obadiah from the Old Testament Peshitta could you be kind enough to provide me with the ISBNs of each book. That is, the ISBN of the Lamsa translation and the ISBN of the Syrian bible.

Many thanks

Raymond
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#15
Shlama Raymond,


Lamsa's is "The Holy Bible from the Ancient Eastern Text" ISBN 0060649232.

The other is "The Syriac Bible", United Bible Society ,1979. ISBN 0564032123.

Dave
Get my NT translations, books & articles at :
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://aramaicnt.com">http://aramaicnt.com</a><!-- m --> and Lulu.com
I also have articles at BibleCodeDigest.com
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