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Peshitta Aramaic
#10
Shlama everyone,


Paul Younan Wrote:Shlama Akhi Otto,

Greek Primacists invented the word "Syriac" in an attempt to create a false dichotomy between the language of the Aramaic NT and the language of Jesus. This tactic is downright deceitful. We don't call the language you speak "Californiac", the language we speak "Americaic" just because it differs in vocalization or form from proper British English. Neither do we insist that Shakespeare or Queen Victoria spoke anything other than English.


The real reason why the English words "Syriac" and "Aramaic" caused confusion to many English speakers

I agree with what Paul said regarding Aramaic. However, I disagree with him in putting the blame on "Greek Primacists." No deception was intended whatsoever by past scholars (unless you are referring to a Greek primacist today who himself/herself is confused by these two words or trying to confuse you, because you are debating him/her).

We all know that English borrowed many words from Greek and Latin language (e.g. democracy, philosophy, etc). And "Syriac" is one of them. "Syriac" and "Aramaic" are coined by two groups of English speaking scholars referring to "lishana Aramaya" (Aramaic tounge/language) in different literatures or scholarly works. This creates confusion to modern day laymen (and scholars too).

Greeks called the Arameans "Syrians" and their language "Syriac." (Pardon me for using English words instead of Greek. I just want to make my point clear). This has something to do with Ashur and Ashuri. (*see footnote below but later)

For example, look at the Hebrew word "Aram" (ארם) in 1 Chronicles 19:12

ויאמר אם־תחזק
ממני ארם והיית לי
לתשועה ואם־בני
עמון יחזקו ממך
והושעתיך׃

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B13C019.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B13C019.htm</a><!-- m -->

and compare it with Syros (συρος) in 1 Chronicles 19:12 of the Septuagint.

και ειπεν εαν κρατηση υπερ εμε *συρος και εση μοι
εις σωτηριαν και εαν υιοι Αμμων κρατησωσιν υπερ σε και
σωσω σε

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://septuagint.org/LXX/1Chronicles/1Chronicles19.html">http://septuagint.org/LXX/1Chronicles/1 ... les19.html</a><!-- m -->


and also ARAMITH (ארמית) of Ezra 4:7 in Hebrew :


ובימי ארתחששתא
כתב בשלם מתרדת
טבאל ושאר כנותו
על־ארתחששתא מלך
פרס וכתב הנשתון
כתוב ארמית ומתרגם
ארמית׃

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B15C004.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B15C004.htm</a><!-- m -->


and compare it with SYRISTI ( συριστι ) of Ezra 4:7 in Greek Septuagint

και εν ημεραις Αρθασασθα εγραψεν εν ειρηνη Μιθραδατη Ταβεηλ συν
και τοις λοιποις συνδουλοις αυτου προς Αρθασασθα βασιλεα Περσων εγραψεν ο φορολογος γραφην *συριστι και ηρμηνευμενην

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://septuagint.org/LXX/Ezra/Ezra4.html">http://septuagint.org/LXX/Ezra/Ezra4.html</a><!-- m -->


From the Septuagint we know that Greeks have been calling the Arameans "Syrians" and their Aramaic language "Syriac" since the time (or before the time) of the translators of the Septuagint. These Greek words συρος (referring to Hebrew ARAM) and συριστι (referring to Hebrew ARAMITH) are imported into English and transliterated as Syria, Syrian, and SYRIAC.

If any of the readers here can't read Hebrew or Greek, I will give you the English translations of 1 Chronicles 19:12 and Ezra 4:7 from NIV(New International Version) , NKJV(New King James Version), and KJV(King James Version) and I hope it will settle this matter once and for all that Syriac is synonymous to Aramaic. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->

1 Chronicles 19:12 NIV:

Joab said, "If the ARAMEANS are too strong for me, then you are to rescue me; but if the Ammonites are too strong for you, then I will rescue you.

1 Chronicles 19:12 NKJV:

Then he said, "If the SYRIANS are too strong for me, then you shall help me; but if the people of Ammon are too strong for you, then I
will help you.

1 Chronicles 19:12 KJV 1611:

And he said, If the SYRIANS be too strong for me, then thou shalt help me: but if the children of Ammon be too strong for thee, then I will help thee.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B13C019.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B13C019.htm</a><!-- m -->


1 Chronicles 19:12 Latin Vulgate:

dixitque si vicerit me Syrus auxilio eris mihi sin autem superaverint te filii Ammon ero tibi in praesidium

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/vulgate/B13C019.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/vulgate/B13C019.htm</a><!-- m -->


Ezra 4:7 NIV:

And in the days of Artaxerxes king of Persia, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel and the rest of his associates wrote a letter to Artaxerxes. The letter was written in ARAMAIC script and in the ARAMAIC LANGUAGE. [ 4:7 Or [ written in Aramaic and translated ] ]


Ezra 4:7 NKJV:

In days of Artaxerxes also, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabel, and the rest of their companions wrote to Artaxerxes king of Persia; and the letter was written in ARAMAIC script, and translated into the ARAMAIC LANGUAGE.


Ezra 4:7 KJV 1611:

And in the days of Artaxerxes wrote Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of their companions, unto Artaxerxes king of Persia; and the writing of the letter was written in the SYRIAN TOUNGE, and interpreted in the SYRIAN TOUNGE.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B15C004.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B15C004.htm</a><!-- m -->


Ezra 4:7 in Latin Vulgate explains the origin of Syriac in English

et in diebus Artarxersis scripsit Beselam Mitridatis et Tabel et reliqui qui erant in consilio eorum ad Artarxersen regem Persarum epistula autem accusationis scripta erat SYRIACE et legebatur sermone syro

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/vulgate/B15C004.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/vulgate/B15C004.htm</a><!-- m -->




If you are still not convinced that Syriac and Aramaic are the same language then I hope the two English Bibles above will help clarify the confusion caused by these two English words - one borrowed from Greek language and the other one from Hebrew and Aramaic.

From the Bible itself (the book of Ezra quoted above and other parts of the Bible - what higher authority than this do we need? <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin --> ) we know that Aramaic had become the international lingua franca in the sixth century B.C., in the Persian empire, under Darius I, and extended from the Indus valley to Egypt.

Despite Greek influences, after the conquest of Alexander the Great (or was he Alexander the Gay? <!-- sHuh --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/huh.gif" alt="Huh" title="Huh" /><!-- sHuh --> I am referring to the movie Alexander <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: --> ) Aramaic remained the vernacular language of the conquered peoples in the Middle East, and the adjacent countries. Unlike the Arab Muslim conquerors, the Greek conquerors did not force common folks to speak Greek. Aramaic ceded to Arabic in the Middle East after the Islamic invasions and conquests of the Middle East in the 9th century A.D. two full centuries after Islamic conquests of Damascus in 633 A.D. and Jerusalem in 635 A.D. by Khalid ibn al-Walid (better known as "The SWORD of Allah" <!-- s:dontgetit: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/dontgetit.gif" alt=":dontgetit:" title="Dont Get It" /><!-- s:dontgetit: --> ) and Caliph Umar.

Aramaic ceased to be a uniform language during the Hellenistic period of the Seleucids, when various dialects began to form, due to regional influences of pronunciation and vocabulary. The language henceforth divided into an Eastern branch (with a number of dialects), and a Western branch (with its dialects), but all have great similarity just like Chinese language which has many dialects - Mandarin, Cantonese, Hokkien, etc. It depends on where you come from in China though Mandarin now is the official language. For example, my Chinese dialect is Hokkien. My nephews and nieces without formal training learned Cantonese dialect from watching Cantonese programs since young. Here in Singapore all Cantonese programs are dubbed into Mandarin, because the government wants its citizen to use Mandarin as the official language of communication between Chinese from different dialects. You can see on TV that the Cantonese programs are dubbed in such a way that as though the original Cantonese actors were actually speaking Mandarin. That shows the great similarity between Chinese dialects.

I am not an Aramaic expert like Paul, but judging from my daily reading of the Aramaic/Syriac of Targums and the Aramaic/Syriac of Peshitta I don't think they differ much in grammar, syntax, and vocabularies and it will not be difficult for me to learn one dialect of Aramaic if I know another dialect - just like my nephews and nieces learned Cantonese from TV. All it takes for me is to continously visit this site on daily basis:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/searching/targumsearch.html">http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/searching/targumsearch.html</a><!-- m -->


Greek loan-words in Syriac/Aramaic language occured during the Hellenistic period mentioned above. This explains the uses of some Greek loan-words in the Peshitta Tanakh (Old Testament). Since the Peshitta Tanakh is far ancient than our Peshitta New Testament, we should not be surprised to see some Greek loan-words in the Aramaic/Syriac New Testament. However, the same thing cannot be said about the occurences of many Aramaic words and syntax in the Greek New Testament.

Regarding the Old Testament Peshitta, please take note that the large colony of the Jews of Orhai (later called Edessa by Seleucids, and now called Urfa in Turkey), and the Jewish colonies in Assyria in the kingdom of Adiabene whose royal house had converted to Judaism, possessed the Peshitta Old Testament. This version was taken over by all the Churches in the East which used, and still use Aramaic, as far as India (Thomas is said to be martyred in India in 72 A.D. , remember? <!-- s:bigups: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/bigups.gif" alt=":bigups:" title="Big Ups" /><!-- s:bigups: --> ), Turkestan and China.

The Greeks must have interacted with the Semitic people long before the invention of the Greek alphabets since they are borrowed from Shemitic people. There is no meaning in the Greek letters like Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, etc while in Hebrew or Semitic languages they have meanings. Aleph = bull, Beth = house, Gimel = camel, Daleth = door. etc.




CONCLUSION

SYRIAC = ARAMAIC = ARAMAYA
Many scholars today confused the words Syriac and Aramaic as they use the former to refer to the language of the Peshitta and the latter to the Aramaic/Syriac language of the Bible when the truth is these two words have same origin - one is coined from the Greek language while the other one from the Hebrew and Aramaic/Syriac languages.



<!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->


Shlama,

Dan Gan




PS
*footenote regarding Ashur, Ashuri, and Greek Syros & Syristi


Paul Younan Wrote:It's important to keep in mind that "Assyrian" is an ethnicity (like "Chinese"), it's not a religion. Assyrians follow many different religions, or none at all. The original Assyrians worshipped Ashur, a pagan deity, and some still do today.

quoted from another thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1030">viewtopic.php?t=1030</a><!-- l -->

Regarding the pagan deity Ashur, is it possible that this Ashur was actually the Ashur in Genesis 10: 22 ?
According to Genesis, Ashur was one of the sons of Shem. He was the brother of Aram. Probably his descendants deified him later as a deity. Well, that is anoher story by itself.

The sons of Shem:
Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram. (Genesis 10:22, NIV)


The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram. (KJV)

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B01C010.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B01C010.htm</a><!-- m -->


בני שם עילם ואשור
וארפכשד ולוד
וארם׃

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B01C010.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B01C010.htm</a><!-- m -->


υιοι *σημ Αιλαμ και Ασσουρ και Αρφαξαδ και Λουδ και
Αραμ και Καιναν (LXX)

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://septuagint.org/LXX/Genesis/Genesis10.html">http://septuagint.org/LXX/Genesis/Genesis10.html</a><!-- m -->


hence the explanation of the origin of SHEMITIC languages according to the Bible in Genesis 10: 31 later:

These are the sons of SHEM by their clans and LANGUAGES, in their territories and nations. (NIV)

These are the sons of SHEM, after their families, after their TOUNGES, in their lands, after their nations (KJV)

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B01C010.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B01C010.htm</a><!-- m -->

So, is it possible that Assyrians actually got their name from their ancestor Asshur (the Biblical Asshur in Genesis 10:22) instead of pagan deity Asshur (who actually was the same Asshur of Genesis 10:22 but deified by his descendants later)?

I prefer the Biblical explanation to the origin of the Assyrian people. <!-- s:biggrin: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/biggrin.gif" alt=":biggrin:" title="Big Grin" /><!-- s:biggrin: -->


Further evidences:


Genesis 10:11 (KJV):

Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B01C010.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B01C010.htm</a><!-- m -->


מן־הארץ ההוא יצא
אשור ויבן
את־נינוה ואת־רחבת
עיר ואת־כלח׃

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B01C010.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B01C010.htm</a><!-- m -->



Numbers 24:22 (KJV):

Nevertheless the Kenite shall be wasted, until Asshur shall carry thee away captive

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B04C024.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/kjv/B04C024.htm</a><!-- m -->


Numbers 24:22

כי אם־יהיה לבער
קין עד־מה אשור
תשבך׃

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B04C024.htm">http://www.ultimasurf.net/bible/tanakh/B04C024.htm</a><!-- m -->
One of the first owners of the facsimile of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0802837867/ref=nosim/ultimyourulti-20"><b>Codex Leningrad</b></a>
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Messages In This Thread
Peshitta Aramaic - by ograabe - 07-19-2004, 09:25 PM
Re: Peshitta Aramaic - by Paul Younan - 07-20-2004, 01:44 AM
Peshitta Aramaic - by ograabe - 07-21-2004, 07:14 PM
[No subject] - by Ivan Pavlovich Ostapyuk - 07-22-2004, 04:20 AM
Re: Peshitta Aramaic - by Vsanzcm - 07-22-2004, 07:23 PM
Re: Peshitta Aramaic - by Paul Younan - 07-22-2004, 07:47 PM
[No subject] - by Ivan Pavlovich Ostapyuk - 07-24-2004, 03:05 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 07-24-2004, 06:03 PM
Re: Peshitta Aramaic - by Raymond - 12-01-2004, 04:03 AM
Re: Peshitta Aramaic - by Dan Gan - 12-01-2004, 04:20 PM

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