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genealogy, Mary the rightful king?
#10
drmlanc Wrote:Right gang, now BOTH lines end up in Zerubabbel.

Both lines converge for two generations: Shilathi'el and Zerubabel. Both were the rightful kings of their generation, if only there there had been a throne for them to rule.

Quote:So, regardless of the Jehoiachin issue, it could go either way. It all depends on which of Z's son's was older...

Yes. But for various subtle and logical reasons we have to assume it came through Yosip. There are big problems with kingship passing through a female, because if Maryam had any younger brothers then they would inherit not Y'shu through her, or if her father had died before Y'shu was born or even old enough to reign then any surviving uncles or male cousins would be an issue.

Another problem for both genealogies is that neither Awiud (Mattai) or Riza (Luqa) are listed as sons of Zerubabel in 1 Chronicles 3:19-26. Do the genealogies not match with I Chronicles because of both Mattai and Luqa being abbreviated? Or perhaps they weren't born yet at the time I Chronicles 3:19-26 was recorded. Unfortunately, this another place where we are forced to rely more on faith than evidence.

Finally, why I'm convinced the genealogy in Mattai HAS to be that of Maryam NOT Yosip. Mattai says there are 14 generations "from the captivity of Babel until Meshikha, fourteen generations." If the genealogy is that of Maryam we only have 13 generations:

1. Shilathi'el
2. Zerubabel
3. Awiud
4. Eleakem
5. Azor
6. Zadoq
7. Akhen
8. Eleud
9. Eleazar
10. Matan
11. Yaqob
12. Yosip the husband of Maryam
13. Y'shu who is called Meshikha

Wrong number in the Greek and the "Old" Syriac translations of the Greek.

However, if <i>Gowra</i> refers to Maryam's father and this is her genealogy:

1. Shilathi'el
2. Zerubabel
3. Awiud
4. Eleakem
5. Azor
6. Zadoq
7. Akhen
8. Eleud
9. Eleazar
10. Matan
11. Yaqob
12. Yosip the <i>gowra</i> (as in father) of Maryam
13. Maryam
14. Y'shu who is called Meshikha

To show why the counting has to start at Shilathi'el and not Yokhanea:

1. Awraham
2. Iskhaq
3. Yaqob
4. Yehuda
5. Pares
6. Khisron
7. Aram
8. Amenadab
9. Nikhshon
10. Salmon
11. Baz
12. Awbed
13. Aeshe
14. Dawid

1. Shlemon
2. R'khebam
3. Abea
4. Asa
5. Yahoshapat
6. Yoram
7. Awazea
8. Yotham
9. Akhaz
10. Khizaqea
11. M'nashe
12. Amon
13. Yoshea
14. Yokhanea

Thus, Yokhanea has to be in the middle set of 14 in order to arrive at the required three sets of 14 with the resulting total of 42. Only the Peshitta can be used to arrive at exactly 42 generations.

Quote:I want to make a genealogy article in the far future covering ALL possible questions, so such info would be greatly appreciated.

You aren't going to be able to address ALL possible questions, so it may be counterproductive to raise questions that simply aren't answered by the texts. We only have the answers that we come up with using Hermeneutics and logic to fill the gap of what we aren't told, which is why I deal with these things as quickly as possible in my footnotes of Paul's translation such as:

"The curse that was placed upon Yokhanea in Yirmeyahu 22:24-30 was lifted because of his later repentance as recorded in Sanhedrin 37a and implicitly shown in I Diwrei HaYamim 3:17-18 and Melakhim 25:27-28."

And move on to avoid creating the impression that these are things that people should be concerned about and thus avoid raising doubts in people whose faith may not be that strong.

Shlama, Craig
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Messages In This Thread
genealogy, Mary the rightful king? - by drmlanc - 10-16-2003, 03:56 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-16-2003, 07:32 AM
. - by drmlanc - 10-16-2003, 08:02 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-16-2003, 08:14 AM
. - by drmlanc - 10-16-2003, 08:33 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-16-2003, 08:51 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-16-2003, 08:59 AM
. - by drmlanc - 10-16-2003, 09:04 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-16-2003, 09:12 AM
Re: . - by Craig - 10-16-2003, 11:05 AM
[No subject] - by Guest - 10-16-2003, 12:58 PM
[No subject] - by Guest - 10-16-2003, 01:02 PM
[No subject] - by Craig - 10-16-2003, 03:52 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-16-2003, 04:00 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-16-2003, 05:00 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-16-2003, 06:51 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-16-2003, 06:53 PM
[No subject] - by Craig - 10-16-2003, 07:19 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-16-2003, 10:24 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-16-2003, 11:39 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 03:52 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 06:16 AM
. - by drmlanc - 10-17-2003, 08:53 AM
Re: . - by Craig - 10-17-2003, 03:38 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 05:50 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-17-2003, 06:03 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 06:09 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 06:22 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 06:31 PM
[No subject] - by Craig - 10-17-2003, 06:48 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 06:53 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 06:55 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 07:17 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-17-2003, 08:33 PM
. - by drmlanc - 10-17-2003, 08:55 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-17-2003, 09:17 PM
. - by drmlanc - 10-17-2003, 09:22 PM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-17-2003, 09:23 PM
. - by drmlanc - 10-17-2003, 09:28 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 09:47 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 10:15 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-17-2003, 11:11 PM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-18-2003, 01:05 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-18-2003, 01:17 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-18-2003, 01:21 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-18-2003, 01:22 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-18-2003, 01:31 AM
[No subject] - by Paul Younan - 10-18-2003, 01:47 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-18-2003, 02:03 AM
. - by drmlanc - 10-18-2003, 02:59 AM
. - by drmlanc - 10-18-2003, 03:01 AM
[No subject] - by Dave - 10-18-2003, 04:01 AM
[No subject] - by Craig - 10-24-2003, 03:09 AM

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