"The apocrypha was not part of the canon of the early churches (1st four centuries), though they were recommended for reading"
Deuterocanonical books appear in the Peshitta OT, LXX, Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Alexandrinus, and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus. How did readers of those compilations know that the deuterocanonical books they read therein _weren't_ canonical, but merely 'recommended reading'?
"The Catholic Church did not include it officially into the canon until the 16th century- April 15,1546 Council of Trent."
What's your response to this?:
The deuterocanonicals are part of an A.D. 382 canon:
Council of Rome
http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/deutero2.htm
"Now indeed we must treat of the divine Scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [that is, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings]; Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus, one book . . . . Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books" (Decree of Pope Damasus [A.D. 382]).
"The Hebrew canon was settled as early as 400 BC by Ezra the Scribe."
Reference? Is that canon the same as the Masoretic canon?
"3. Josephus (37-100 A.D), the Jewish historian also affirmed in his arguments in Contra Apion 1:7-8 the number of books in the Hebrew canon was numbered at 22, which according to Jewish numbering is the same as the 39 in the Protestant Old Testament. (See Chapter 5, Old Testament Canon). "Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty and contain the record of all time. Contra Apion 1:7-8"4."
When was that canon finalized? (after Jesus' death and resurrection?)
"Jewish tradition also taught in the Babylonian Talmud, the books in the Hebrew “Canon” are the identical 39 books, which are in both the Protestant and Catholic Bibles, to the exclusion of the Apocrypha. (See Talmud Babylon Baba Batra 14b)"
What's the date of that?
It's bizarre to appeal to a virulently anti-Christian group of individuals, who vehemently deny that God had anything to do with the appearance of the New Testament, for guidance as to what's in the Old Testament.
Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Baba Bathra
Baba Bathra 14b
http://www.come-and-hear.com/bababathra/...ra_14.html
Our Rabbis taught: The order of the Prophets is, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and the Twelve Minor Prophets....
from _The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today_ by Elizabeth Dilling
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt03.html
The supreme hatred of Talmudic Judaism is reserved for and directed against the hated "adherers to the text" of Scripture who are, thus, accused of spurning the words of the Pharisee "Sages," as enshrined in the Babylonian Talmud.
....
Talmudic Anti-Christianity
The ultimate object of hatred in Talmudic Judaism is Christ, and the targets of Talmudic hatred are not just Gentile non-Jews, "the people who are like an ass — slaves who are considered the property of the master" (Talmud, Kethuboth 111a). Of these non-Jews, the Christians are most insanely hated and loathed because their doctrines are the opposite of every Talmudic doctrine. They rank not just as animals, like the rest of non-Talmudic humanity, but almost as vermin, to be eradicated. Language in the Talmud is virtually exhausted to find foul and hated names for Christians.
"5. Jerome (325-420 A.D.) The Biblical scholar of his day, and the translator of the Catholic Bible, the Latin Vulgate, clearly agreed with the Hebrew canon, being limited 39 books of the present Old Testament to the exclusion of the additional books of the Apocrypha."
Deuterocanonical books appear in the Peshitta OT, LXX, Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Alexandrinus, and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus. How did readers of those compilations know that the deuterocanonical books they read therein _weren't_ canonical, but merely 'recommended reading'?
"The Catholic Church did not include it officially into the canon until the 16th century- April 15,1546 Council of Trent."
What's your response to this?:
The deuterocanonicals are part of an A.D. 382 canon:
Council of Rome
http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/deutero2.htm
"Now indeed we must treat of the divine Scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [that is, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings]; Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus, one book . . . . Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books" (Decree of Pope Damasus [A.D. 382]).
"The Hebrew canon was settled as early as 400 BC by Ezra the Scribe."
Reference? Is that canon the same as the Masoretic canon?
"3. Josephus (37-100 A.D), the Jewish historian also affirmed in his arguments in Contra Apion 1:7-8 the number of books in the Hebrew canon was numbered at 22, which according to Jewish numbering is the same as the 39 in the Protestant Old Testament. (See Chapter 5, Old Testament Canon). "Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty and contain the record of all time. Contra Apion 1:7-8"4."
When was that canon finalized? (after Jesus' death and resurrection?)
"Jewish tradition also taught in the Babylonian Talmud, the books in the Hebrew “Canon” are the identical 39 books, which are in both the Protestant and Catholic Bibles, to the exclusion of the Apocrypha. (See Talmud Babylon Baba Batra 14b)"
What's the date of that?
It's bizarre to appeal to a virulently anti-Christian group of individuals, who vehemently deny that God had anything to do with the appearance of the New Testament, for guidance as to what's in the Old Testament.
Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Baba Bathra
Baba Bathra 14b
http://www.come-and-hear.com/bababathra/...ra_14.html
Our Rabbis taught: The order of the Prophets is, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and the Twelve Minor Prophets....
from _The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today_ by Elizabeth Dilling
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt03.html
The supreme hatred of Talmudic Judaism is reserved for and directed against the hated "adherers to the text" of Scripture who are, thus, accused of spurning the words of the Pharisee "Sages," as enshrined in the Babylonian Talmud.
....
Talmudic Anti-Christianity
The ultimate object of hatred in Talmudic Judaism is Christ, and the targets of Talmudic hatred are not just Gentile non-Jews, "the people who are like an ass — slaves who are considered the property of the master" (Talmud, Kethuboth 111a). Of these non-Jews, the Christians are most insanely hated and loathed because their doctrines are the opposite of every Talmudic doctrine. They rank not just as animals, like the rest of non-Talmudic humanity, but almost as vermin, to be eradicated. Language in the Talmud is virtually exhausted to find foul and hated names for Christians.
"5. Jerome (325-420 A.D.) The Biblical scholar of his day, and the translator of the Catholic Bible, the Latin Vulgate, clearly agreed with the Hebrew canon, being limited 39 books of the present Old Testament to the exclusion of the additional books of the Apocrypha."