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tongues vs languages
#9
Thirdwoe Wrote:Hi Jeremy,

Do you think that what is described as divided tongues of fire in Acts 2, which is said to have appeard over those who were gathered in the upper room, has anything to do with the instance of the gift of spiritual languages, given by unction of the Spirit being termed "tongues"...either in ancient times, or modern times? I think it might be a reason...other than the fact, that the old English translations render the Greek word that way. There seems to be a correlation to me. I'll have to check on the ancient Church Father's like Just, Ireneaus, and Tertullian, who speak of this gift in their generation of the mid 2nd to early 3rd century. I'll check to see if they refer to this utterance gift in the same way as it is today among those who claim to have this gift.

Shlama,
Chuck


Shlama akhi,

my personal opinion is that when a LESHAN appeared over the person's head, it was a symbol for the unification of the Ruwkha upon the believers, and this unification came about physically through the ability to speak in the differing languages of those who were present at the event. the text is clear that they were speaking known languages. the "tongue" resting upon them would be symbolic of this ability of reunification of communication.

i don't think that textually it can refer to anything other than known tongues. it doesn't appear to be related to the modern ecstatic version in common use among charismatic circles. i am highly suspect of that version, but i won't say entirely that is MUST be in error, as i've had some experiences with it where it seemed real. but for the most part i am very wary of it. i've heard individuals speak the same phrase over and over and over while giving an "interpretation" that is supposed to be about what they are "ecstatically" speaking. to me, that is not how a language works. it has to make some kind of sense.

and from what i know of the history of the ecstatic form of tongues, it is not one that instills much confidence in the modern version. if you haven't already, i would suggest familiarizing yourself with the history of how it "returned" in the 20th century, and i'd love to hear your thoughts.

from what i know there was no ancient acceptance of ecstatic tongues in the Church at any time. one tried to use it as early as the second century, named Montanus, and was quickly labeled heretical due to this, and other beliefs. definitely someone to research with the ancient witnesses concerning this topic.

so for me, i won't completely deny the ecstatic "tongue," but i am very cautious of it -- i've seen so much of it and so little seemed real. i think the Aramaic text provides the best Semitic answer to the problem: they were known languages - divinely-inspired in the ability to speak them, but known languages nonetheless. i don't think the Peshitta can be used to support the idea [edit for clarity: of ecstatic tongues], since it uses the Hebrew cognate of LASHON, and the idea was never an ecstatic one in Hebrew.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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Messages In This Thread
tongues vs languages - by Alan G77 - 02-24-2012, 05:26 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 02-24-2012, 06:38 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Arkady - 02-24-2012, 09:50 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 02-24-2012, 04:44 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Arkady - 02-24-2012, 06:00 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 02-24-2012, 07:22 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Burning one - 02-24-2012, 08:18 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 02-24-2012, 11:04 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Burning one - 02-25-2012, 02:28 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 02-26-2012, 12:00 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Burning one - 02-26-2012, 02:46 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 02-26-2012, 06:23 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Arkady - 02-26-2012, 07:06 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Burning one - 02-26-2012, 06:12 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Miadhach - 02-26-2012, 11:16 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Alan G77 - 02-27-2012, 05:35 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 02-27-2012, 11:15 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Burning one - 02-28-2012, 03:17 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 02-28-2012, 03:47 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Burning one - 02-28-2012, 04:31 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Bradley - 06-01-2012, 10:23 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Aaron S - 06-02-2012, 12:57 AM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Bradley - 07-18-2012, 03:05 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 07-18-2012, 06:49 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Bradley - 07-24-2012, 07:37 PM
Re: tongues vs languages - by Thirdwoe - 07-25-2012, 03:20 AM

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