03-07-2011, 01:47 AM
Shlama all,
Alan writes: "Let me ask you, was Jesus a failure? In accordance with your logic this would make Him so (Khaslee). Because according to protestant logic Christianity was wayward for 1600 years until Luther fixed things, therefore making Christ and His blessed apostles, failures.I would love to hear your reaction to this statement."
Andre writes: "Please do tell me your thoughts regarding these things."
So here goes, as Alan said, "straight from the pits of hell" <!-- s:angry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/angry.gif" alt=":angry:" title="Angry" /><!-- s:angry: --> <!-- s:crazy: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/crazy.gif" alt=":crazy:" title="Crazy" /><!-- s:crazy: --> <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> <!-- s
neaky: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sneaky1.gif" alt="neaky:" title="Sneaky" /><!-- sneaky: -->
I can't believe that I am accused of making the NT after my own image, when I have taken the Online Bible's 1905 critical edition of The Peshitta NT:
1905 Syriac Peshitta New Testament
Published by British and Foreign Bible Society
Public Domain.
Please make copies for your friends.
as prepared for the Online Bible program.
This is identical to The Syriac Bible NT by United Bible Society 1979, which I have in print. The volume contains the entire Peshitta Bible.
The same text is found online practically wherever an online Peshitta NT can be found.
John Marucci's online Beth Sapra Peshitta edition is identical to mine, as far as I can see. It has the pericope de adultera in its place within brackets, without any notes of explanation. This can be found on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/projects.html">http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/projects.html</a><!-- m --> (Yes, Peshitta.org - Paul Younan's web site).
The Western 5 books are also included without any note or apology. John thanks Paul Younan & The Peshitta.org forum in the intro. of each NT book for the use of the Peshitta.org web site on which to post this edition of The Peshitta:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/projects.html">http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/projects.html</a><!-- m -->
I made no changes to the Peshitta text I received in 2004, which I translated at the end of 2006 and published in Jan. 2007. A year or two later, a few editing errors in the Online Peshitta edition were pointed out which I corrected, but they mere very minor.
In 2006, Janet Magiera published her translation from the same edition I used.
George Kiraz uses this edition (British Foreign Bible Society edition); I see also that the British edition is the same as the UBS edition, and that the pericope de adultera is contained therein without any brackets or notes.
I have also -
Khathava d'Deyatheeqee Khedatha d'Maran Yeshu Meshikha
(The Book of The New Testament of our Lord Jesus The Messiah)
done in New York City (America) in the Christian year 1982.
This is an Eastern Peshitta edition, presumably used by Assyrian Churches, since it is sold on an Assyrian web site. This Assyrian edition has all 27 books of the Western canon, not just the 22 found in most Peshitta mss. There are notes introducing each of the the Western five books to the effect that: "This book is not in the manuscripts called Peshitta, but is written in later ancient mss." The pericope de adultera is also found in this edition, introduced by a similar note, which adds, that it is found "in the Greek and in one later ancient Syriac manuscript that is designated Jerusalem's."The Psalms are included after Revelation.
Let me say a few words about the critical edition of the Peshitta I have translated. It is based on several critical editions: Gwilliam's & Pusey's 1905 collation of 42 Peshitta manuscripts of the Gospels; for Pauline epistles, Gwilliam & Pinkerton's critical edition of 1920 was used, based on 12 Peshitta mss.; Gwilliam also published an edition for Acts & the General Epistles "along the same lines as that of the Gospels edition", though I do not know how many mss. he consulted. For the so called "Western five" Epistles- 2. Peter, 2 John, 3rd John, Jude & Revelation, John Gwynn's critical editions of those books of 1897 (Apocalypse) & 1909 (the other general epistles) were used. They were based on 21 Aramaic manuscripts, including the Crawford Aramaic ms., which contains all 27 books of the NT, and is generally classified as an Eastern Peshitta ms. in its text, except, of course, for the Western five mss. Gwynn also collated 12 Aramaic manuscripts containing the pericope de adultera, one of which is a Peshitta manuscript, dated 1611, and contains the pericope in its place at the end of John 7. This means that a total of more than 87 manuscripts were collated and form the text for the critical edition I have translated, whose readings generally were chosen by a majority consensus. Gwilliam observed however, that even the Eastern and Western Peshitta mss. agreed so closely, that there was scarcely any doubt what the original reading was in any place.
This NT text is hardly one that I made in my own image, but represents the majority consensus of 56 or more Peshitta manuscripts for 22 books, and of 30 other Aramaic mss. and perhaps a couple Peshitta mss. for the Western 5 and the pericope.
It is much safer to rely on dozens of Peshitta mss. than on just one, when ascertaining the exact reading in any one place where there may be a question. Thankfully, all Peshitta mss. are very carefully copied and uniform in their readings in almost place where they are compared.
I hope this will suffice for now. I know I have not addressed all the questions, but I have a movie to watch with my wife.
Be blessed,
Qasheesha Dave
Alan writes: "Let me ask you, was Jesus a failure? In accordance with your logic this would make Him so (Khaslee). Because according to protestant logic Christianity was wayward for 1600 years until Luther fixed things, therefore making Christ and His blessed apostles, failures.I would love to hear your reaction to this statement."
Andre writes: "Please do tell me your thoughts regarding these things."
So here goes, as Alan said, "straight from the pits of hell" <!-- s:angry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/angry.gif" alt=":angry:" title="Angry" /><!-- s:angry: --> <!-- s:crazy: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/crazy.gif" alt=":crazy:" title="Crazy" /><!-- s:crazy: --> <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> <!-- s
neaky: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sneaky1.gif" alt="neaky:" title="Sneaky" /><!-- sneaky: --> I can't believe that I am accused of making the NT after my own image, when I have taken the Online Bible's 1905 critical edition of The Peshitta NT:
1905 Syriac Peshitta New Testament
Published by British and Foreign Bible Society
Public Domain.
Please make copies for your friends.
as prepared for the Online Bible program.
This is identical to The Syriac Bible NT by United Bible Society 1979, which I have in print. The volume contains the entire Peshitta Bible.
The same text is found online practically wherever an online Peshitta NT can be found.
John Marucci's online Beth Sapra Peshitta edition is identical to mine, as far as I can see. It has the pericope de adultera in its place within brackets, without any notes of explanation. This can be found on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/projects.html">http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/projects.html</a><!-- m --> (Yes, Peshitta.org - Paul Younan's web site).
The Western 5 books are also included without any note or apology. John thanks Paul Younan & The Peshitta.org forum in the intro. of each NT book for the use of the Peshitta.org web site on which to post this edition of The Peshitta:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/projects.html">http://www.peshitta.org/beth-sapra/projects.html</a><!-- m -->
I made no changes to the Peshitta text I received in 2004, which I translated at the end of 2006 and published in Jan. 2007. A year or two later, a few editing errors in the Online Peshitta edition were pointed out which I corrected, but they mere very minor.
In 2006, Janet Magiera published her translation from the same edition I used.
George Kiraz uses this edition (British Foreign Bible Society edition); I see also that the British edition is the same as the UBS edition, and that the pericope de adultera is contained therein without any brackets or notes.
I have also -
Khathava d'Deyatheeqee Khedatha d'Maran Yeshu Meshikha
(The Book of The New Testament of our Lord Jesus The Messiah)
done in New York City (America) in the Christian year 1982.
This is an Eastern Peshitta edition, presumably used by Assyrian Churches, since it is sold on an Assyrian web site. This Assyrian edition has all 27 books of the Western canon, not just the 22 found in most Peshitta mss. There are notes introducing each of the the Western five books to the effect that: "This book is not in the manuscripts called Peshitta, but is written in later ancient mss." The pericope de adultera is also found in this edition, introduced by a similar note, which adds, that it is found "in the Greek and in one later ancient Syriac manuscript that is designated Jerusalem's."The Psalms are included after Revelation.
Let me say a few words about the critical edition of the Peshitta I have translated. It is based on several critical editions: Gwilliam's & Pusey's 1905 collation of 42 Peshitta manuscripts of the Gospels; for Pauline epistles, Gwilliam & Pinkerton's critical edition of 1920 was used, based on 12 Peshitta mss.; Gwilliam also published an edition for Acts & the General Epistles "along the same lines as that of the Gospels edition", though I do not know how many mss. he consulted. For the so called "Western five" Epistles- 2. Peter, 2 John, 3rd John, Jude & Revelation, John Gwynn's critical editions of those books of 1897 (Apocalypse) & 1909 (the other general epistles) were used. They were based on 21 Aramaic manuscripts, including the Crawford Aramaic ms., which contains all 27 books of the NT, and is generally classified as an Eastern Peshitta ms. in its text, except, of course, for the Western five mss. Gwynn also collated 12 Aramaic manuscripts containing the pericope de adultera, one of which is a Peshitta manuscript, dated 1611, and contains the pericope in its place at the end of John 7. This means that a total of more than 87 manuscripts were collated and form the text for the critical edition I have translated, whose readings generally were chosen by a majority consensus. Gwilliam observed however, that even the Eastern and Western Peshitta mss. agreed so closely, that there was scarcely any doubt what the original reading was in any place.
This NT text is hardly one that I made in my own image, but represents the majority consensus of 56 or more Peshitta manuscripts for 22 books, and of 30 other Aramaic mss. and perhaps a couple Peshitta mss. for the Western 5 and the pericope.
It is much safer to rely on dozens of Peshitta mss. than on just one, when ascertaining the exact reading in any one place where there may be a question. Thankfully, all Peshitta mss. are very carefully copied and uniform in their readings in almost place where they are compared.
I hope this will suffice for now. I know I have not addressed all the questions, but I have a movie to watch with my wife.
Be blessed,
Qasheesha Dave