Couple of questions

[Burning one]

Thank you once more for your answer. i will ask you one more time for patience, as i will, again, clarify myself:
Reading 1 John 5:7-8, i see some disagreement not only in arrangement.

Let me demonstrate by quoting the entire two verses from the three translations:
Etheridge:
And there are three that testify, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three are in one.

Murdock:
(For there are three that testify in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.) And there are three witnesses, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are in union.

Lamsa:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one And there are three to bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one.

though Etheridge's vs.7-8 has the same text as Lamsa's v.8 and it was split up in two verses, Etheridge does not, however, have the v.7 found in Lamsa's. Murdock, however, simply put v.7 in brackets, being in the middle of the two.

Looking at the Syriac, it seems that the BFBS/UBS has the long form, whereas the Khabouris has the short form. i am uncertain if this is the proper way to include Syriac text here, but i will just copy/paste (Edit: didn't work, i will try this:

BFBS/UBS:
wrwh mshd dhy rwh ytyh srr . wytyhwn tlt shdyn rwh wmy wdm wtltyhwn bhd nwn .

Khabouris:
. Jwn0 dxb Jwhytltw . 0mdw 0ymw 0xwr Nydhs Flt Jwhyty0w

Even if the formatting will mess up, you can clearly see there are more words in the BFBS/UBS, right?

So, maybe you were saying that there is no theological difference here, or maybe you do not approve of one of the Syriac versions, of i misunderstood you else-how, but please have patience and explain, as i have already learned so many valuable things from you and you seem to be the most pleasant person around here.

Shlama, Andrewj,


no problem with questions, so let's try explaining it this way: i'm going to post the English versions available at Dukhrana, and then what is ACTUALLY in those specific verses in the two Aramaic texts also available at Dukhrana, and you can see for yourself what is actually in the text, and what is implied by the translators.

5:6 (Etheridge) This is he who came by water and blood, Jeshu the Meshiha: it was not by water only, but by water and blood; and the Spirit testifieth, because the Spirit himself is truth.

5:6 (Murdock) This is he who came by the water and the blood. Jesus the Messiah; not by the water only, but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit testifieth; because the Spirit is truth.

5:6 (Lamsa) This is he who came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit testifies that that very Spirit is the truth.

5:6 (KJV) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

The text as contained in the UBS for verse 6:
This is he who came by water and blood, Jeshu the Meshiha: it was not by water only, but by water and blood;

The text as contained in the Khabouris for verse 6:
This is he who came by water and blood, Jeshu the Meshiha: it was not by water only, but by water and blood; and the Spirit testifieth, because the Spirit himself is truth.

5:7 (Etheridge) And there are three that testify, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood;

5:7 (Murdock) [For there are three that testify in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.]

5:7 (Lamsa) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one

5:7 (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The text as contained in the UBS for verse 7:
and the Spirit testifieth, because the Spirit himself is truth.

The text as contained in the Khabouris for verse 7:
And there are three that testify, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood;

5:8 (Etheridge) and these three are in one.

5:8 (Murdock) And there are three witnesses, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are in union.

5:8 (Lamsa) And there are three to bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one.

5:8 (KJV) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

The text as contained in the UBS for verse 8:
And there are three witnesses, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are in union.

The text as contained in the Khabouris for verse 8:
and these three are in one.


okay, now that we have the list, check them out verse-by-verse to see uncontestedly what is actually in the two Aramaic versions:

The text as contained in the UBS for verse 6:
This is he who came by water and blood, Jeshu the Meshiha: it was not by water only, but by water and blood;
The text as contained in the UBS for verse 7:
and the Spirit testifieth, because the Spirit himself is truth.
The text as contained in the UBS for verse 8:
And there are three witnesses, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are in union.

The text as contained in the Khabouris for verse 6:
This is he who came by water and blood, Jeshu the Meshiha: it was not by water only, but by water and blood; and the Spirit testifieth, because the Spirit himself is truth.
The text as contained in the Khabouris for verse 7:
And there are three that testify, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood;
The text as contained in the Khabouris for verse 8:
and these three are in one.

you have to disregard the "variant" in the English versions of Murdock and Lamsa, because they make you think there is content in the Peshitta that is not actually there. what i have listed in the two above verse-by-verse passages is what is actually found in the text of the Peshitta. the passage "[For there are three that testify in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.]" is not in the Peshitta.

this goes along with what i mentioned in an email to you about how some English translations of the Peshitta are "liberal" in their approach. so there is no Aramaic variant in 1st John -- only the insertion of a Greek variant into the English translation -- which makes absolutely no sense.

well, i hope that helps to clarify the issue with these verses. if not, please keep asking, and maybe we can go another route for explanation.

Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy