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No Piercing At Jesus' Side
Ben Masada Wrote:
Burning one Wrote:Shlama,

are you aware that the topics on this site are supposed to be dealing with the Peshitta in some way, shape, or form? theological issues are not debated here, unless, i suppose, the moderators wish to change things.

as it stands, here's the best reason why Yeshuwa WAS pierced in His side: the record of Yeshuwa being pierced in His side IS contained in the Peshitta, and it was done NOT to kill Him, but to make certain He was dead --the physical presence of "blood and water" coming forth from the wound proved there had already been a death, but NOT by the normal method of positional asphyxiation from broken legs which took the lives of the other two men. this testimony is what was being given -- He didn't die a NORMAL death because He didn't have broken legs, yet He still seemed to have undergone positional asphyxiation. that is what was so astonishing. this shows that He willingly, with complete control of His faculties, gave up His life. the Peshitta accurately upholds this info of His piercing in the Aramaic, and there is no reason to doubt the textual record.

Chayim b'Moshiach,

I agree with you about the symptoms and results of a spear-piercing at the side of a moribund or already dead person. The point though is that I have a dregree in Roman History of the period of the Republic, and it is well-known that it was not a Roman policy to certify death of crucified by spear-piercing
them on the cross. Likewise, the leg-breaking process was not Roman either but Jewish.

And with regards to his willingness to give his life, that's not what I seee from his prayers in the Garden of Eden, where he prayed three times to escape death on the cross. It means, he took the via dolorosa against his will. "Be Thy will done; not mine." What was Jesus' will? Obviously, he never meant to redeem Mankind through death in the cross.


perhaps you are placing too much on "public policy" with this incident. there was a Jewish time constraint been pushed on the soldiers to have this whole situation done with before the high Sabbath began, and crucifixion usually took days to end one's life, not hours. the leg breaking was done out of respect, not policy, for the wishes of the Jewish leaders. the leg breaking would expedite death, so that it why it was done -- you are right that it was not a normal procedure, since crucifixion was intended to be an extended means to death. the piercing of the side was also a unique action since Messiah was already dead, and the soldier obviously was surprised at such a hasty demise, that the side of Messiah was pierced probably to make sure He was dead, and to see HOW He died. it seems based more on the individual's curiosity than any procedure or policy. as such, i don't think there is any conflict whatsoever in these situations. just because it happened doesn't necessitate it went against public policy in any fashion.

also, do you think the Garden of Gethsemane is actually the Garden of Eden? i've not considered such before, but that is an interesting idea, if that is what you propose... and i would strongly take issue with saying that He went to His death against His will. He prayed, not my will, but Your's be done." Thus, He retracted the enforcing of His will to align with the Father's. that is pretty clear from the text. to say that He didn't intend to redeem man on the cross is to go against the textual evidence. you can believe it all you want, but you've got no evidence to support it textually, so it becomes blind faith. BOTH the Aramaic and the Greek texts preserve His intentions of going to Ureeshlem, being betrayed, crucified, and resurrected again from the dead. argue all you want, but this site is about the textual issues. if you don't think you can trust the textual witnesses and yet provide no textual reason why, you're not bringing anything to the table. you have to make your case through the text.

Chayim b'Moshiach,

Messages In This Thread
Re: No Piercing At Jesus' Side - by Burning one - 03-04-2010, 01:42 AM
Re: No Piercing At Jesus' Side - by Burning one - 03-14-2010, 09:28 PM

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