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before I begin
#12
Nimrod Warda Wrote:Hello again Kara,

To piggy back off of Andrew Gabriel Roth's newest post, I thought I would provide this info for you to read in context.

Below is a reading in which a well respected Western theologian (who happens to be a Greek Primacist) attests to the Peshitta being from at least the 2nd Century A.D. The book is A General Survey of the History and Canon of the New Testament (Seventh Edition), and was written in the year 1896 by Brooke Foss Westcott. It was originally published in Cambridge at the University Press. I am quoting multiple passages from pages 244 to 248.

"...Moreover it is known that books {in general} were soon translated from Syriac into Greek, and while such an intercourse existed it is scarcely possible to believe that the Scriptures themselves remained untranslated. The same conclusion follows from the controversial writings of Bardesanes {whom died in the year 222 CE according to the Catholic Encyclopedia} which necessarily imply the existence of a Syriac Version of the Bible. Tertullian's example may show that he could hardly have refuted Marcion without the constant use of Scripture. And more than this, Eusebius tells us that Hegisippius 'made quotations from the Gospel according the Hebrews and the Syriac and especially from [writings in?] the Hebrew language, showing thereby that he was a Christian of Hebrew descent. This testimony is valuable coming from the only early Greek writer likely to have been familar with Syriac literature...

...Ephraem Syrus {whom died in the year 373 according to the Catholic Encyclopedia}, a deacon of Edessa, treats the Version in such a manner as to prove that it was already old in the fourth century. He quotes it as a book of established authority, calling it 'Our Version'; he speaks of the Translator one whose words were familar; and though the dialects of the East are proverbially permanent, his explanations show that its language even in his time had become partially obsolete.

Another circumstance serves to exhibit the venerable age of this Version. It was universally received by the different sects into which the Syrian church was divided in the fourth century, and so has continued current even to the present time. All the Syrian Christians, whether belonging to the Nestorian, Jacobite or Roman communion, conspire to hold the Peshitto authoriative and to use it in their public services. It must consequently have been established by familar use before the first heresies arose or it could not have remained without a rival. Numerous versions or revisions of the New Testament were indeed made afterwards, for Syriac literature is peculiarly rich in this branch of theological crticism; but no one ever supplanted the Peshitto for ecclesiastical purposes. Like the Latin Vulgate in the Western Church, the Peshitto became in the East the fixed and unalterable Rule of Scripture.
The respect in which the Peshitto was held was further shown by the fact that it was taken as the basis of other Versions in the East. An Arabic and a Persian Version were made from it; but it is more important to notice that at the beginning of the fifth century (before the Council of Ephesus A.D. 431) an Armenian Version was commenced from the Syriac in the absence of Greek Manuscripts.

These indications of the antiquity of the Peshitto do not indeed possess and conclusive authority, but they all tend in the same direction, and there is nothing on the other side to reverse or modify them. It is not improbable that fresh discoveries may throw a clearer light on the early Syriac literature; and that more copious critical resources may serve to determine the date of the Peshitto on philological grounds. But meanwhile there is no sufficient reason to desert the opinion that has obtained the sanction of the most competent scholars, that its formation should be fixed to the first half of the second century. The text, even in its present revised form, exhibits remarkable agreement with the most ancient Greek Manuscripts and the earliest quotations from, The very obscurity that hangs over its origin is a proof of its venerable age, because it shows it grew up spontaneously in Christian congregations, and it was not the result of any public labour. Had it been a work of late date, of the third or fourth century, it is scarecly possible that its history should be so uncertain as it is."


When reading this chapter of Westcott's book it is still obvious that the author, like you, assumes the Peshitta is a translation from the Greek, but he himself says earlier in the chapter "In the absence of an adequate supply of critical materials it is impossible to construct the history of these recensions in the Syriac..." Now the reason I bring this up is that, as Mr. Roth mentioned in his post, many of today's Western scholars quote Westcott as authoritative, yet he himself says that he has no facts to support this assumption! At the very least, he is acknowledging that the Peshitta is NOT from Rabulla or a revision of the so-called "Old Syriac".

Peace,

-Nimrod Warda-

Nimrod,

Peace and blessings to you and yours.

First, I want to correct myself. I should have never sided with either camp before overwhelming evidence presented itself from either party. Right now, evidence behind the claim that the Syriac Gospels are derived from the Greek Gospels is scant, whereas the evidence behind the other way around is based on correlational research. To say that the Greek Gospels lacks this or that pun/wordplay otherwise found in the Peshitta does not prove that one came from the other. Fortunately, Sebastian Brock referred me to Kiraz's "aligned edition of the Old Syriac, Peshitta, and Harkean Gospels." This book, according to Brock, is supposed to demonstrate how the Peshitta is irrefutably a revision of the Old Syriac by showing their interrelationship.

If Kiraz demonstrates that the Peshitta has a 60% agreement or more with either the Old Syriac or Harklean Gospels, then I will conclude that the Peshitta is related to the Greek mss. If he demonstrates a 50% or less agreement to either manuscripts, then we can conclude, based on the statistical insignificance of the findings, that the Peshitta is unique in the sense that it is unrelated to the Greek mss and thus Greek tradition.


Kevin
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Messages In This Thread
before I begin - by Kara - 02-22-2010, 09:51 PM
Re: before I begin - by Nimrod Warda - 02-22-2010, 10:56 PM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 02-25-2010, 01:26 AM
Re: before I begin - by Burning one - 02-25-2010, 03:12 AM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 02-25-2010, 07:40 PM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 02-26-2010, 12:40 AM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 02-26-2010, 01:26 AM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 02-26-2010, 12:26 PM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 02-26-2010, 12:43 PM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 02-26-2010, 06:05 PM
Re: before I begin - by Nimrod Warda - 02-26-2010, 07:03 PM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 02-26-2010, 07:55 PM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 02-26-2010, 08:59 PM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 02-26-2010, 09:05 PM
Re: before I begin - by Burning one - 03-04-2010, 09:43 PM
Re: before I begin - by ograabe - 03-05-2010, 03:42 AM
Re: before I begin - by Burning one - 03-05-2010, 03:46 AM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 03-05-2010, 04:02 AM
Re: before I begin - by Burning one - 03-05-2010, 04:47 AM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-06-2010, 01:05 AM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 03-07-2010, 11:06 PM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-08-2010, 07:34 AM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 03-09-2010, 06:03 AM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-10-2010, 01:09 AM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 03-10-2010, 02:08 AM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-10-2010, 05:23 AM
Re: before I begin - by Burning one - 03-10-2010, 07:24 AM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-10-2010, 07:44 AM
Re: before I begin - by Nimrod Warda - 03-10-2010, 02:09 PM
Re: before I begin - by Phil - 03-10-2010, 03:25 PM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-10-2010, 06:27 PM
Re: before I begin - by Nimrod Warda - 03-10-2010, 08:14 PM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 03-10-2010, 10:57 PM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-11-2010, 01:14 AM
Re: before I begin - by Stephen Silver - 03-11-2010, 01:57 AM
Re: before I begin - by judge - 03-11-2010, 03:52 AM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-11-2010, 04:40 AM
Re: before I begin - by Burning one - 03-11-2010, 05:45 AM
Re: before I begin - by Burning one - 03-11-2010, 06:07 AM
Re: before I begin - by Nimrod Warda - 03-11-2010, 03:35 PM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-11-2010, 05:28 PM
Re: before I begin - by Kara - 03-11-2010, 11:36 PM

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