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For Andrew Gabriel Roth
#56
Rafa Wrote:The COE never accepted the council of Nicea, they weren't even invited (because they were in Persia, not the Roman empire). Belief in co-existing persons (as in OUR modern sense, not the probable original sense some of these guys were discussing the term "personna") is the definition of polytheism. I also stand by Akhi Andrew. Persons is the whole debate. Why use this terrible term for the deity? Stick to Aramaic concepts and it will all click. Just make the effort.

Shlama Akhi Rafa,

A couple of points:

(a) the CoE was not a participant in Nicaea (nor at any "western" council, for that matter). So that part is true, however....

(b) the CoE held a council, the Council of Mar Isaac, in 410ad at Seleucia-Ctesiphon (Babylon). At this synod Marutha, a representative from the Roman Emperor, brought to the assembled bishops at Babylon the canons and creed of the Council of Nicea, and they were officially approved and received by the Church of the East. Note that this was many decades after the council of Nicea was held in the Western empire.

© the terminology of "persons" is not present in the Creed, therefore we have no objection to it. Had it contained that terminology, the council of Mar Isaac would have declined Marutha's request that the CoE accept it.

Akhi Spyridon, as with most other things (Christology included), the beliefs of the CoE and the "Western" Churches are substantially the same. The difference is, and most of the problems have occurred as a result of, terminology.

When one side formulates in Greek, and the other side formulates in Aramaic there are going to be key areas that, although substantially identical, yet the terminology is going to differ and each side is going to prefer to use their own wording.

The CoE is "Trinitarian" as long as you take care to note that the terminology is not identical. The "person" term, while we understand what you mean by it, can be problematic. And you have already seen the effects of the misunderstanding/confusion created by this term - not only when speaking of God, but also Christologically. I agree with the previous post in which someone said, I think it was Rafa, that the Aramaic is really a much simpler concept. I really feel that's because Greek is far a more suitable language for scientific terminology, whereas Semitic languages in general convey religious meanings in a better way.

This is our official position on the matter:

Quote:The teaching of the Church of the East is based on the faith of the universal Church as set forth in the Nicene Creed. The mystery of the Holy Trinity and the mystery of the Incarnation are central to its teaching. The church believes in One Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It also believes and teaches that the Only-begotten Son of God, God the Word, became incarnate for us men and for our salvation and became man. The same God the Word, begotten of his Father before all worlds without beginning according to his divinity, was begotten of a mother without a father in the last times according to his humanity, in a body of flesh, with a rational, intelligent, and immortal soul which he took from the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary and united to himself, making it his very own at the moment of conception. The humanity which he took for his own was assumed by God the Word, who was, thenceforth and for ever, the personal subject of the divine and human natures. His divine and human natures retain their own properties, faculties, and operations unconfusedly, immutably, undividedly, and inseparably.

Therefore, because the divinity and humanity are united in the Person of the same and only Son of God and Lord Jesus Christ, the Church of the East rejects any teaching which suggests that Christ is an "ordinary man" whom God the Word inhabited, like the righteous men and the prophets of old. The Church of the East further rejects any teaching that explicitly or implicitly suggests that there are two Sons, or two Lords, or two Christs in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but we confess one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The same, through his passion, death, burial, and resurrection, redeemed humanity from the bondage of sin and death, and secured the hope of resurrection and new life for all who put their faith in him, to whom, with his Father and the Holy Spirit, belongs confession, worship, and adoration unto ages of ages. Amen.

Note, again, that the use of the word "person" is avoided until we speak about the Person of Meshikha, Who is of course the Subject of the Incarnation. We never refer to God as a "person" or "persons."

+Shamasha
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Messages In This Thread
For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by *Albion* - 09-12-2008, 05:37 PM
Mari/P.E.A.C.E. update - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-13-2008, 04:51 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-16-2008, 11:21 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Amatsyah - 09-17-2008, 05:57 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by aramaic_albion - 09-17-2008, 06:18 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by aramaic_albion - 09-17-2008, 08:07 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-17-2008, 08:15 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-17-2008, 10:14 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by glscottnz - 09-18-2008, 11:47 AM
Spiritual "Meat Loaf" - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-18-2008, 03:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by aramaic_albion - 09-18-2008, 06:30 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-18-2008, 06:35 PM
Nashama - by Stephen Silver - 09-18-2008, 11:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-18-2008, 11:30 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-19-2008, 05:38 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-19-2008, 10:23 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-20-2008, 02:30 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-20-2008, 06:32 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 05:53 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 08:50 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 09:02 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 09:14 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 12:44 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 01:07 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-21-2008, 01:10 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 01:12 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by glscottnz - 09-21-2008, 02:48 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 03:05 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 05:09 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 05:32 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 05:50 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Dawid - 09-21-2008, 12:56 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-21-2008, 06:55 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-21-2008, 08:19 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-22-2008, 07:57 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-22-2008, 09:01 AM
I am weary - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-22-2008, 04:59 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 05:06 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 05:35 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 06:03 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 06:12 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 06:17 PM
The Nazarene Creed - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-22-2008, 06:34 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 06:52 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 06:54 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 07:02 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 07:17 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 07:25 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Dawid - 09-23-2008, 01:04 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-24-2008, 12:35 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 12:25 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 04:12 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 04:31 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 04:58 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 05:12 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 08:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-01-2008, 09:10 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 09:52 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-01-2008, 10:54 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 10-01-2008, 11:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 11:06 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 10-01-2008, 11:10 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 11:24 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-02-2008, 06:52 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-03-2008, 07:01 AM
To Spyridon - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 10-03-2008, 01:35 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 10-03-2008, 03:01 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-03-2008, 03:38 PM
Exploring Q'noma and Trinity - by Stephen Silver - 10-03-2008, 07:22 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-03-2008, 07:30 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-03-2008, 07:34 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-09-2008, 05:47 AM

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