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For Andrew Gabriel Roth
#44
Shlama Akhi Spyridon,

I am convinced that you are simply choosing not to hear either me or others here. I have been nothing but both respectful and logical with you. I agree the laws of logic are immutble but it is you, not I, who have not followed those laws. But allow me to in all respect and peace explain because I dialogue with Christians and academicians from all over the world and want to show you what I mean with concrete examples. I ask with extreme humility and sincerity that you take the time and effort to read what I am saying to you. Can you please do that? These are my points back to you:

1) You keep saying the COE is trinitarian except they don't call YHWH "persons". If that is so, then I too am trinitarian! For me "persons" of YHWH is the whole point that the Nazarenes and the COE are against and Western Christianity in its Greek translations at least are for. I say this because of the mss record. Aramaic says qnumeh, Greek PROSOPON and Latin PERSONNA. The Greek and Latin terms mean PERSON the Aramaic qnumeh means an individuated instance of a nature or kyanna, and if that sounds strange to you, frankly I am not surprised because you have glossed by this distinction without understanding from me or from Paul at least 6 times. To say a trinitarian position is the same but for PERSONS is kind of like saying bacon is kosher except for the pork.

2) As for triunity it is also not a good term. I can count for example 7 spirits of YHWH in Isaiah 11:1-2 so why don't you hear Jews and Nazarenes and yes some very sharp Christians talk about "sept-unity" or some such thing? What if I find five more attributes of YHWH, or spirits, in 1 Chronicles? Is there now a penta-unity? See to me that is ridiculous and un productive because from Genesis to Revelation there is ONE ELOHIM, YHWH. And yes YHWH has attributes but that is not the same thiing as PERSONS. Are we clear yet?

3) You are acting like you have understood my positions all along but I am doubtful. You have also not offered a single linguistic or scriptural counterpoint or even shown me that you acknowledge the point. Just making a blanket statement now after all this dialogue is disingenous sir, to say the least. Where is YOUR SCRIPTURE? Why don't you be a Berean and prove everything as I have? If you can prove me wrong are you really only going to refer to some "Christian tradition" and leave it at that? To me that is lazy and it is not a Christian problem I am having with you. It is a methodology problem. I have many Christian friends in dozens of countries around the world sir. But they, unlike you, at least do the work. I have dialogued with people of every faith and with no faith at all and I have been willing as Yah is my witness to always admit when i am wrong IN PUBLIC if the offense was in public. Just ask anyone here who knows me. They may not always like my style but they know I speak the truth.

4) When others like Christina or Ryan point out to you the most basic flaw, like not understanding Oral Law, you don't even acknowledge it. I don't know everything but I guess you do because you can be abrupt and just move on to your next question. That is just rude okay? What are you like 16? And you have the nerve to then turn around and talk about academic discussion and about how I can't stand disagreement? You must be joking. I have been both patient and thorough with you and kept the focus on Scripture. You want to talk to me about the laws of logic being immutable? Guess what, so are the laws of COURTESY and you better learn them fast.

5) You had also better learn to go point for point as I do. I break up posts and analyze each part one at a time. Again your answer is another question and you express no gratitdue for the effort. Again, don't bring academia up to me because you will lose that argument. In academia a student raises his hand and listens to the answer. And while I don't aspire to be your professor I have answered dozens of your questions without the roles being reversed even once. I can disagree with you all day Spyridon but I will not tolerate your disrespect while doing so. Am I clear? It is YOUR style, NOT I repeat NOT your faith, that is troubling to me. Believe what you will because I am not an evangelist but I don't back down from the truth as I see it WHEN ASKED.

It's a shame because some of your questions, like the one before last, are truly excellent opportunities for discussion as Gordon said. I don't mind answering them--but your manners sir must change immediately. Don't force my hand for more detail than that because you don't want to go there. To push me without apology or grattude from here would be most unwise. You would do very well to take what I say at face value for I give you good advice and not turn it into my resisting the cross. Those who know me, who saw me baptized, know better. You know what? The best Christians I know also don't go out of their way to offend others and they apologize when they do even if they are not sure why. If I have to show this Scripture too, then you are lost.

I have nothing further to say. Change and we can continue a fruitful discussion. Remain as you are and we are done.

Shlama w'burkate
Andrew Gabriel Roth
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Messages In This Thread
For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by *Albion* - 09-12-2008, 05:37 PM
Mari/P.E.A.C.E. update - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-13-2008, 04:51 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-16-2008, 11:21 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Amatsyah - 09-17-2008, 05:57 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by aramaic_albion - 09-17-2008, 06:18 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by aramaic_albion - 09-17-2008, 08:07 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-17-2008, 08:15 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-17-2008, 10:14 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by glscottnz - 09-18-2008, 11:47 AM
Spiritual "Meat Loaf" - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-18-2008, 03:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by aramaic_albion - 09-18-2008, 06:30 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-18-2008, 06:35 PM
Nashama - by Stephen Silver - 09-18-2008, 11:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-18-2008, 11:30 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-19-2008, 05:38 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-19-2008, 10:23 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-20-2008, 02:30 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Stephen Silver - 09-20-2008, 06:32 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 05:53 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 08:50 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 09:02 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-20-2008, 09:14 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 12:44 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 01:07 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-21-2008, 01:10 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 01:12 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by glscottnz - 09-21-2008, 02:48 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 03:05 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-21-2008, 04:15 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 05:09 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 05:32 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-21-2008, 05:50 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Dawid - 09-21-2008, 12:56 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-21-2008, 06:55 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-21-2008, 08:19 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-22-2008, 07:57 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 09-22-2008, 09:01 AM
I am weary - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-22-2008, 04:59 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 05:06 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 05:35 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 06:03 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 06:12 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 06:17 PM
The Nazarene Creed - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 09-22-2008, 06:34 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 06:52 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 06:54 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 09-22-2008, 07:02 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 07:17 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 09-22-2008, 07:25 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Dawid - 09-23-2008, 01:04 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Thirdwoe - 09-24-2008, 12:35 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 12:25 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 04:12 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 04:31 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 04:58 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 05:12 AM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 08:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-01-2008, 09:10 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 09:52 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-01-2008, 10:54 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 10-01-2008, 11:00 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 11:06 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 10-01-2008, 11:10 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-01-2008, 11:24 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-02-2008, 06:52 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-03-2008, 07:01 AM
To Spyridon - by Andrew Gabriel Roth - 10-03-2008, 01:35 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Paul Younan - 10-03-2008, 03:01 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-03-2008, 03:38 PM
Exploring Q'noma and Trinity - by Stephen Silver - 10-03-2008, 07:22 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-03-2008, 07:30 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Christina - 10-03-2008, 07:34 PM
Re: For Andrew Gabriel Roth - by Spyridon - 10-09-2008, 05:47 AM

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