07-11-2005, 06:26 AM
Non-blogger dave:
You answered my question just fine. Before I answer your good question concerning transliteration, I would like to further explore the Aramaic translation of Aramaic issue.
Chris Lancaster (quote)
However, there are three places where the ???translation??? (an explanation actually) still occurs in the Peshitta, and Greek primacists are only too eager to say ???Look at how silly the Peshitta is! It mentions the phrase in Aramaic, then says it in Aramaic again!??? These few examples actually have good reason for allegedly ???doubling up??? ??? and the repeated phrase is always different.
1) In Mark 3:17, Jesus calls James and John, ???sons of thunder???. The Peshitta then follows with the ???translation/explanation???, just like the Greek, because ???bnay raghshee???, ???sons of thunder???, can also mean ???sons of rage???. Gospel writer Mark merely explains that the intended meaning was ???thunder???.
2) The Peshitta again seemingly repeats itself in Acts 1:19 with ???akeldama???, ???field of blood???, followed by an explanation. This explanation is given, because ???akeldama??? was a local nickname for that field and would most probably not have been understood by foreigners, even if they spoke Aramaic.
3) In Mark 15:34, we have the famous ???my God, my God, why have you spared me???? As expected, in the Greek, we are given a translation. But in the Aramaic, we are also given this explanation. The reason is most likely that Jesus, coming from Galillee, spoke the Gallilean dialect of Aramaic. Mark, then ???translates??? the words into the Judean dialect of Aramaic, so his audience could understand. This is somewhat confirmed by some Jews at the time, thinking that Jesus called out to Elijah.
(end of quote)
Although I have already demonstrated that it was'nt jews who mistook Jesus's words for Elijah (and that it was the centurions standing near), I like Chris Lancaster's compilation. I wonder if it's complete.
My question is: Are there instances in the Peshitta - other than these three - where Aramaic of a different dialect is used and a translation was NOT provided by the author? In this case, it might be possible that the authors of the peshitta took their cue from a Greek text for the three passages listed by Chris Lancaster?
Ask me to re-phrase this if it is unclear.
As for the transliterations. This is a very good point. Do you have a complete list. It does'nt seem to be in Chris Lancaster's book.
I have a stupid question: Could the Aramaic authors have transliterated Greek terms which were borrowed from a semitic term - like a Hebrew or even Aramaic term (whithout direct gleaning from the Peshitta). I know this seems absurd - but maybe Greeks came to borrow terms from Aramaic - included it in their vocabulary, wrote the books - and then the Peshitta authors re-translated these terms back to Aramaic. You prabably think I'm nuts now - but I'm just trying to explore any possibility - I am already concivinced of Aramaic Primacy - but when I will encounter greek primacists, I want to be ready for anything.
Thanks a bunch.
You answered my question just fine. Before I answer your good question concerning transliteration, I would like to further explore the Aramaic translation of Aramaic issue.
Chris Lancaster (quote)
However, there are three places where the ???translation??? (an explanation actually) still occurs in the Peshitta, and Greek primacists are only too eager to say ???Look at how silly the Peshitta is! It mentions the phrase in Aramaic, then says it in Aramaic again!??? These few examples actually have good reason for allegedly ???doubling up??? ??? and the repeated phrase is always different.
1) In Mark 3:17, Jesus calls James and John, ???sons of thunder???. The Peshitta then follows with the ???translation/explanation???, just like the Greek, because ???bnay raghshee???, ???sons of thunder???, can also mean ???sons of rage???. Gospel writer Mark merely explains that the intended meaning was ???thunder???.
2) The Peshitta again seemingly repeats itself in Acts 1:19 with ???akeldama???, ???field of blood???, followed by an explanation. This explanation is given, because ???akeldama??? was a local nickname for that field and would most probably not have been understood by foreigners, even if they spoke Aramaic.
3) In Mark 15:34, we have the famous ???my God, my God, why have you spared me???? As expected, in the Greek, we are given a translation. But in the Aramaic, we are also given this explanation. The reason is most likely that Jesus, coming from Galillee, spoke the Gallilean dialect of Aramaic. Mark, then ???translates??? the words into the Judean dialect of Aramaic, so his audience could understand. This is somewhat confirmed by some Jews at the time, thinking that Jesus called out to Elijah.
(end of quote)
Although I have already demonstrated that it was'nt jews who mistook Jesus's words for Elijah (and that it was the centurions standing near), I like Chris Lancaster's compilation. I wonder if it's complete.
My question is: Are there instances in the Peshitta - other than these three - where Aramaic of a different dialect is used and a translation was NOT provided by the author? In this case, it might be possible that the authors of the peshitta took their cue from a Greek text for the three passages listed by Chris Lancaster?
Ask me to re-phrase this if it is unclear.
As for the transliterations. This is a very good point. Do you have a complete list. It does'nt seem to be in Chris Lancaster's book.
I have a stupid question: Could the Aramaic authors have transliterated Greek terms which were borrowed from a semitic term - like a Hebrew or even Aramaic term (whithout direct gleaning from the Peshitta). I know this seems absurd - but maybe Greeks came to borrow terms from Aramaic - included it in their vocabulary, wrote the books - and then the Peshitta authors re-translated these terms back to Aramaic. You prabably think I'm nuts now - but I'm just trying to explore any possibility - I am already concivinced of Aramaic Primacy - but when I will encounter greek primacists, I want to be ready for anything.
Thanks a bunch.