drmlanc Wrote:Some of my wierd thoughts:
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I'll read through them. I've already got picked out an instance of over eagerness to criticize Catholicism:
Quote:The books of Enoch and Jubilees (not part of our Canon thanks to the Council of Laodicea, e.g. Catholics!)
You can hardly blame Catholics for this, since Judaism left it out of their canon, and of all the Christian groups only the Ethiopians canonized those two books. Moreover even in the time of Y'shu they existed only in Greek. And anything that didn't have a documented continous line of existence in Hebrew or Aramaic wasn't even considered for canonization byJudaism (and I agree with them on that).
Quote:Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls) along with the oldest known copy of scripture known to man: The scroll of Isaiah. Whatever was in these books was obviously very important to these Christians.
Whatever the people at Qumran were, they weren't Christians:
"...there is one more point that needs to be addressed-- the dates of these scrolls.
Most of them are well before the common era--perhaps as early as 150 BC. A lot of targums seem to be dated to about 120 BC. Only a handful are in the common era, with the latest to about 68 AD, and they never identify the Mashiach directly either (although the Resurrection Fragment may indicate an indirect influence one way or the other). In any case, the bottom line is most are well before Y'shua HaMashiach's time and those that are not had over thirty years to "get the message" and reflect it in the writings, and this wasn't done either." (Andrew Gabriel Roth)
Quote: From The Book of Jasher (mentioned in Joshua 10:13 and II Samuel 1:18) translated from Hebrew to English in 1840:
[Chapter 4:18] says," And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.
The different books claiming to be the "Book of Jasher" are generally considered frauds:
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I've also found the list of problems posted on a board by someone who didn't give the original website he obtained it from:
Questionable and problematic teachings from Jasher
Jasher 3:23-- An angel of the Lord calls Enoch from heaven and wished to make him reign over sons of God as he had reigned over
sons of men upon Earth.
Jasher 3:38 -- Mentions snow before the flood. This doesn't seem possible because there wasn't any rain yet according to Genesis
2:5-6 and 7:4.
Jasher 22:46, 47 & 54 -- Sounds exactly like Job 1:6-8 with Satan talking to God.
Jasher 8 - Celestial events recorded at the birth of Abram. There is a star from the East seen by wise men and conjurors, which
sounds similar to the birth of Christ.
Jasher 43:40-46 - A wolf speaks to Jacob. Biblically the only animal that speaks is Balaams' ass (Numbers 22:28-30.)
Jasher 44:62-68 - This passage is bizarre. God has an 11 month old baby talk and tell of his mother's (Potiphar's wife) advances
toward Joseph.
Then there are the wars of Jacob and his sons - Chapters 34, 35, and 37-40. And also the wars of Zepho (of Chittim) and Angeas,
King of Africa (which is Dinhabah) chapters 61:23-25, 62:25-27, 63:10-35, and 64. I am putting these into the questionable category
(although they could be somewhat possible) because they are not in the Bible and this overview is based on a biblical evaluation
of Jasher.
Contradictions between Jasher and The Bible
Jasher 13:5 says that Abram went to the land of Canaan at the age of 50 then back to Haran and back to Canaan at age 75, Genesis
12:4 states that Abram was 75 when he departed Haran.
Jasher 18:9 states that one of the angels tells Abraham that Sarah will have a son, but Gen. 17:16 says that God told Abraham.
Jasher 22:44-45 says the Lord got the idea of presenting Isaac as an offering from Isaac's boast to Ishmael. We know, of course,
that God is sovereign and as it says in Gen. 22:1-2 & 12 that the Lord was testing Abraham.
Genesis 28:5 states that Isaac sent Jacob to Padan-aram unto Laban but Jasher 29:11 says that he fled to the house of Eber and
hid there for 14 years.
Jasher 47:9 says Isaac dies, according to the chronology of Jasher, Joseph was in Egypt but in Gen. 35:29 Isaac died before Joseph
had his dreams.
Simeon could not be bound in Jasher 51:37 but in Genesis. 42:24 Simeon is bound before their eyes.
Jasher 51:26-32 -- The brothers tell Joseph (whom they don't recognize) that they are looking for their brother (him). Genesis 42:6-14.
Jasher 78:12-13 -- Pharaoh proclaims no more straw but same amount of bricks (before Moses goes to Pharaoh.) Exodus 5:1,7-8
says it happened after Moses confronts Pharaoh.
Jasher 80:1 "and at the end of two years the Lord sent Moses to Pharaoh" while Exodus 7:14-15 says, "The Lord said unto Moses
get thee unto Pharaoh in the morning.
Jasher 80:2-51 lists these Plagues;
1. Waters into blood (v. 3) / Exodus 7:20
2. Frogs (v. 6) / Exodus 8:6
3. Lice (v. 10) / Exodus 8:17
4. The Lord sent all kinds of beasts into Egypt and destroyed all Egypt ( v.13) / Not in Exodus
5. Fiery serpents, scorpions, mice, weazles, toads (v. 14) / Not in Exodus
6. Flies, hornets, fleas, bugs, gnats (v. 15) / Exodus 8:24
7. All reptiles and winged animals came and grieved the Egyptians (v.16) / Not in Exodus
8. God ordered the Sulanuth from the sea, she had long arms, 10 cubits in length and she went upon the roofs and uncovered the
raftering and flooring and stretched forth her arm and removed locks and bolts and opened the houses of Egypt. (v. 19-21) / Not
in Exodus
9. Pestilence (v.24) / Exodus 9:3
10. Burning inflammation (v. 27) / Not in Exodus
11. Boils (v. 28) / Exodus 9:10
12. Hail and fire (v. 30-31) / Exodus 9:23
13. Locusts (v. 33) / Exodus 10:13
14. Darkness (v.36) / Exodus 10:22
15. First born killed (v. 43) / Exodus 12:29
Wholly Unbiblical Portions of Jasher
In Jasher 42:30-41, Rachel talks to Joseph from the grave. This is of course necromancy and is an abomination unto the Lord
(Deuteronomy 18:11-12).
According to 53:18-22 Benjamin used a "map (or chart) of stars" to find Joseph. Deuteronomy 18:10 forbids this. It is an abomination
to be "an observer of times" (astrologer).
Judah threatens Joseph 54:1-68 with annulations but Genesis 44:14-34 is a plea for Benjamin's release.
Chapter 71 of Jasher states that Moses was 18 years old when he left Egypt. (Could this be Rabbinical tradition?) He didn't go to
Midian but to Cush and becomes king (72:34-36) and is king over Cush for forty years (73:2), then he goes to Midian where Reuel
puts him in prison for 10 years because Reuel thinks Moses is wanted by the Cushites. In the book of Acts (7:23-30) Stephen,
inspired by the Holy Spirit, stated the Moses was in Egypt for 40 Years before going to Midian for another 40 years.
Jasher 81:3-4 claims that the Israelites sojourned in Egypt for 210 years whereas the Scripture says in Exodus 12:40-41 it was 430
years.
Jasher 81:40-41 says that all but Pharaoh perished in the Red Sea. Pharaoh thanks the Lord and the Lord sends an angel who casts
him upon the land of Ninevah where Pharaoh reigned for a long time. Scripture (Exodus 14:23 & 28) states that all perished.
Jasher 32:1-40 -- Esau comes to harm Jacob but angels of the Lord scare Esau, v.55 Esau fears Jacob. Genesis 33:3 Jacob bows
seven times to Esau.
Jasher 43:35 -- Isaac went from Hebron to comfort Jacob, his son, because Joseph is dead (sold). Gen. 35:27-29 Isaac died before
Joseph even dreamed his dreams.
Shlama, Craig