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Luke the Assyrian or Syrian?
#1
Arghhhhhhhh!

What have you made me do Paul... I checked out the Eusebius quote about Luke born in Antioch ---> Syrian

Where did you get Assyrian from?

Man, I have to fix up my articles now <!-- sSad --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="Sad" title="Sad" /><!-- sSad -->
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#2
Or Assyrians, Syrians and Arameans the same thing?
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#3
drmlanc Wrote:Or Assyrians, Syrians and Arameans the same thing?

Herodotus, mid-fifth century BC Wrote:???The Assyrians went to war with helmets upon their head, made of brass, and plated in strange fashion, which is not easy to describe... These people, whom Greeks call Syrian, are called Assyrian by the barbarians. The Babylonians serve at their rank???

Herodotus: The Histories Harmondsworth: Penguin Books, translation by Aubrey de S??lincourt (1972)

Strabo, 64 BC-21 AD from Amisos in Pontus Wrote:???When those who have written histories about the Syrian empire say that the Medes were overthrown by the Persians and the Syrians by the Medes, they mean by the Syrians no other people than those who built the royal palaces in Babylon and Ninus (Nineveh); and of these Syrians, Ninus was the man who founded Ninus, in Aturia (Assyria) and his wife, Semiramis, was the woman who succeeded her husband... Now, the city of Ninus was wiped out immediately after the overthrow of the Syrians. It was much greater than Babylon, and was situated in the plain of Aturia (Assyria).???

Strabo, translated by Horace Jones (1917), The Geography of Strabo London : W. Heinemann ; New York : G.P. Putnam's Sons
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#4
Are those in Syria today also Assyrian/Syrian?

In any case, at the time, it is teh same apparently, luckily I needn't change the articles... except to take out where I have "Semitic people like Assyrians, Syriabs and Aramaens...". Not much sense in mantioning the same people thrice.

What other Semitic people's were there in Jesus' time then in that area?

Judean, Israeli, Assyrian/Syrian/Aramean, Chaldean, and who else? If that's it, makes a lot of sense why Peshitta often talks of Arameans.
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#5
drmlanc Wrote:Are those in Syria today also Assyrian/Syrian?

In any case, at the time, it is teh same apparently, luckily I needn't change the articles... except to take out where I have "Semitic people like Assyrians, Syriabs and Aramaens...". Not much sense in mantioning the same people thrice.

What other Semitic people's were there in Jesus' time then in that area?

Judean, Israeli, Assyrian/Syrian/Aramean, Chaldean, and who else? If that's it, makes a lot of sense why Peshitta often talks of Arameans.

Shlama Akhi Chris,

It's hard not to confuse the modern-day state of Syria (carved out of the Ottoman Empire by the British after WWI) with the "Syria" and "Syrians" mentioned by the ancient Greeks.

Today's modern state called "Syria" has a sizable Aramaic-speaking Christian Assyrian population, but the majority are Islamic Arabs who conquered the entire middle east in the 7th century. Arabs came originally from Saudi Arabia.

But when the Greeks called the Assyrians "Syrian" (a corruption of "Assyrian"), and hence their language "Syriac" - keep in mind that they were referring to the Assyrians (as the Greek historians Herodotus and Strabo tell us) - and their language, Aramaic.

For a good study, see the following article in the Journal of Assyrian Academic Studies (Volume XI No. 2) by Prof. Frye of Harvard University entitled "Assyria and Syria: Synonymns". http://www.jaas.org/edocs/v11n2/frye.pdf

In Jesus' time, there were basically the same three Semitic groups that still exist today: In the Levant were the Hebrews (Israel and Judah), in Mesopotamia there were the Assyrians (a.k.a., Babylonians~Arameans~Chaldeans) and finally the third group in the deserts of Arabia were the Ishmaelites (Today called "Arabs").

There was once a time before Abraham that there were no such nations as the Jews or the Arabs. All the Semites lived in Babylon and Assyria. It is from there that Abraham went out and his descendants settled lands that were formerly Hamitic in origin.

Today, like in Jesus' time, the same people exist - Semites who call themselves by different names, but in the end are the same exact ethnic group. The same blood.

Remember that Abraham was an "Iraqi". <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
[Image: sig.jpg]
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#6
Yes all Semites, so when I list Semitic peoples of Jesus' day can I say:

Judeans, Israelis, Assyrians/Syrians/Arameans and Chaldeans?
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#7
drmlanc Wrote:Yes all Semites, so when I list Semitic peoples of Jesus' day can I say:

Judeans, Israelis, Assyrians/Syrians/Arameans and Chaldeans?

Probably the best way to say it is:

"Hebrews (a.k.a., Israelites, Jews, etc.), Assyrians (a.k.a., Babylonians, Syrians, Chaldeans) and Arabs (a.k.a., Ishmaelites, etc.) - all people originally of Mesopotamia (Greek for "Beth-Nahrain" (home of the rivers))"
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#8
Man, that I don't get that Babylonians are Assyrians. Why then have Assyria as 2nd world empire and Babylon as 3rd? Why not just say the Assyrians were in between Egypt and Persia?

But if you say so... So when Peter was in Babylon, he was among Assyrians?

As for Arab, they definitely spoke Aramaic in Jesus time yeah? Then I heard around 300-400 AD Arabic came in.

Mensch all these Aramaic-speaking gentiles reading a Greek Bible...

btw I sent you 2nd draft of History1 with questions. Probably will need around 5 drafts... But clean out your fishing equipment first. That stuff tends to smell... fishy...
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#9
Shlama Akhi Chris,

drmlanc Wrote:Man, that I don't get that Babylonians are Assyrians. Why then have Assyria as 2nd world empire and Babylon as 3rd? Why not just say the Assyrians were in between Egypt and Persia?

When talking of Assyrians and Babylonians, it's like talking about the Athenians and the Spartans.

Assyrians and Babylonians are the same exact ethnic people (like Spartans and Athenians), the technical name for them both is Akkadians (from the city of Akkad, their first political center.)

Both spoke the Akkadian language before they made the switch to Aramaic. The Assyrians, in fact, were a Babylonian colony that headed north from Babylon in Southern Iraq into what is now Northern Iraq, and founded their own dynasty - first in Ashur, then later in Nineveh.

When Nineveh fell in 612 BC to the Medes, Babylon became the new political center of the Akkadian people. 70 years later Babylon fell to the Medes and Persians.

drmlanc Wrote:But if you say so... So when Peter was in Babylon, he was among Assyrians?

Of course. And when Jonah was in Nineveh, he was among Babylonians. Same people. Two different cities that fought each other a whole lot.

When speaking of "Babylonians" or "Assyrians", you are speaking geographically and not ethnically. Ethnically, these are the same people.

drmlanc Wrote:As for Arab, they definitely spoke Aramaic in Jesus time yeah?

The Arabs in places like Nabatea and Palmyra spoke and wrote in Aramaic. The other 99% in the deserts of Arabia spoke Arabic and wrote nothing.

drmlanc Wrote:Then I heard around 300-400 AD Arabic came in.

Arabic is a very ancient spoken language, probably from the time of Ishmael's children and their interaction with Egyptians and others. In time, their Aramaic evolved into what we now recognize as Arabic.

Written Arabic, the first example being the Quran, didn't come until much later in the 7th century.....Arabic was the last of the Semitic languages to be written down in an alphabet. Its alphabet was based on the Aramaic script used in Nabatea.
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#10
Thanks P
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