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Luqa's Genealogy is JOSEPH'S !!!! THIS IS HUGE !!!
#1
Shlama Akhay,

This is so HUGE I don't know what to do with myself!

Here is a wonderful quotation by one of the oldest Fathers of the Church of the East, Mar Aphrahat who lived A.D. 280-367:

Quote:Joseph was called the father of Jesus (even though he was not born from his seed), but the name of fatherhood was transmitted from Adam to Joseph, through sixty-three generations.

( Demonstrations, 23:20, c.f., Women in Aphrahat: Some Observations, Adam Lehto, HUGOYE: JOURNAL OF SYRIAC STUDIES, Vol. 4, No. 2 July 2001 found here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol4No2/HV4N2Lehto.html">http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol4No2/HV4N2Lehto.html</a><!-- m --> )

Obviously, Mar Aphrahat is referring to the genealogy given by Luqa, and not Mattai because only Luqa starts the genealogy with Adam and ends with Joseph.

I have to revise the Gawra article - Akhi Chris, you have to revise your article!!!
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+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#2
That is huge indeed!

"Akhi Chris, you have to revise your article!!!
"

?? What do you mean? Which article?
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#3
The one you haven't written yet.... <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#4
Oh man you confused me there... In teh contradictions one I will mostly copy the crap out of your article, really just summarising it and referring to tour original.



Wait Akh, what does it mean?

Matthew has 14 X 3 = 42

Luke has 56


Where does the 63 come in?
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#5
This guy seems to kick major butt, maybe you should compile his best stuff about Aramaic primacy...

btw check your email I have sent you idioms 1 draft
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#6
Thanks for sending that - I'll check it out.

Mar Aphrahat goes on to say "After 62 generations was born Meshikha to Maryam", so he seems to be adding the 20 generations from Adam to Maryam with the 42 generations that Mattai gives to Maryam's line.

The fact that he alludes to a genealogy starting with Adam and ending with Joseph seems to imply to me that he is equating the account in Luqa to Joseph, since Luqa is the only one that started way back with Adam. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#7
Actually soumething is very afoul here Akhi <!-- sSad --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="Sad" title="Sad" /><!-- sSad -->

20 + 56 makes 76, NOT 63.

His 63 business is either false, or something is terribly wrong with the genealogies.

Mary 62 correct. 20 + 14 X 3 = 62

Joseph 63 incorrect. 20 + 56 = 76

Sorry Akh <!-- s:lookround: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lookround.gif" alt=":lookround:" title="Look Round" /><!-- s:lookround: -->
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#8
remember this Paul?

"The Talmud is not an authority for me, the Aramaic sriptures are. "

Sooooo, is some church father authority now also?

Heh, not to salt old wounds, but if you find something in "scripture" that is exact over this, I'm sure everyone including myself will be listening.

endless assumption isn't it?
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#9
hmmmm,....

"On this account, brothers, we know and have seen that from the beginning women have been a way for the Adversary to gain access to men, and until the end he will [continue to] accomplish this. For [women] are the weapon of Satan, and through them he fights against the [spiritual] athletes. Through them he plays music at all times, for they have been like a harp for him from the first day. It was because of them that the curse of the Law was established, and it was because of them that the promise of death came. With pains they bring forth children and deliver [them] to death. Because of them the earth was cursed, so that it would bring forth thorns and thistles. "

No he don't hate women folks, he's just kidding.
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#10
Paul Younan Wrote:Thanks for sending that - I'll check it out.

Mar Aphrahat goes on to say "After 62 generations was born Meshikha to Maryam", so he seems to be adding the 20 generations from Adam to Maryam with the 42 generations that Mattai gives to Maryam's line.)

If we take the 42 from Mattai and look at the records from Luqa which go further back than Awraham we see:



1. Alaha
2. Enash
3. Shet
4. Enosh
5. Keinan
6. Mahalal'el
7. Yered
8. Hanokh
9. Metushelach
10. Lemekh
11. Noach
12. Shem
13. Arpakhshad
14. Keinan
15. Shelach
16. Ever
17. Peleg
18. Reu
19. Srug
20. Nachor
21. Terach (father of Awraham which is where Mattai begins)

21 + 42 = 63. Y'shu is the 63rd generation, thus "after 62 generations was born Meshikha to Maryam."

"Joseph was called the father of Jesus (even though he was not born from his seed), but the name of fatherhood was transmitted from Adam to Joseph, through sixty-three generations. But the name of fatherhood was lifted from Joseph and placed on Christ. From Joseph he received the name of fatherhood, from John [he received] the name of the priesthood, and from Mary he put on a body and received the name of birth."

It would be more useful as a proof text if he hadn't combined the genealogies of Luqa and Mattai and would have simply given Luqa's number from Alaha to Y'shu.

Shlama, Craig
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#11
I don't see how that makes 76 into 63...
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#12
Akhi Paul, sorry to burst your bubble, but am I right to assume that we will not be changing any articles over this?
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#13
No....not yet, still studying the Aramaic from Aphrahat to see if we can come up with a clearer statement.....much of it is untranslated so it's being translated from scratch by me.....
+Shamasha Paul bar-Shimun de'Beth-Younan
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#14
Yeah, if we get the number we need, then that is incredible proof that someone out there already knew what you recently discovered.
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