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The Revelation of 666 from Moses and Ezra
#16
https://peshitta.github.io/#/number to convert from number to letters and from letters to number in various Semitic writings (please let me know if you find bugs, etc.).
In Semitic world (and old Greek too) they wrote numbers using letters of the alephbet, with each letter having a certain numeric value. Aleph = 1, Beth = 2, etc. So if you take the name of the beast as number, it will be the number 666. Like you take that name (if it would be a Semitic name) and paste it into my converter, it will give you the number 666.
Now there are variations for how to express hundreds/thousands and such, also question about in which writing (Greek, Semitic, etc.) the name should be read as number. Also do you take into account letter position inside the word, or you just add the numeric value of each letter and get 666. There is a lot of room.
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#17
Quote:“Gematria is an example: a man-made technique”


A simple truth in a sea of convolution. I appreciate that.

Btw, I used to think gematria was the way to go too, until I investigated it and found it not only lacking biblical support and logic, but actually picked up from Babylonian occult theology, or to use John's umbrella term, "Mystery Babylon" system. But some may still assume gematria is biblical and so I request some solid proof positive of biblical endorsement, not working backwards from a presumption because you were seduced by an example you think is cool the way Eve was seduced seeking knowledge in an unauthorized manner. What’s the biblical standard, two or three witnesses? Pretty simple request but I see why people turn away from God's way of doing things — they HAVE to to justify their unbiblical traditions to themselves. You either choose God's way or you choose the way of the world.

I noted there was a no response to the issues that come with setting the precedent of allowing the use of gematria, thus opening the gates to the hordes of other heathen practices that the bible doesn’t “expressly” prohibit either. What’s stopping you from using all other numerical systems and permutations, or invent new ones, and different translations including English, or even things like ouija? By what authority do we allow or not allow this? God’s authority or man’s authority? This logick ("think whatever you want dude") leads to confusion, a loss of boundaries, definition and distinction (holiness) and is ultimately nihilistic -- going backwards to tohu and bohu, waters of chaos, the dwelling of the tannin; wilderness.

"Now the God of patience and of comfort grant you to think in harmony with each other, in Jesus Christ, that with one mind and with one mouth you may praise God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (Rom 15.5-6 MGI)

Again, we're not talking about all traditions outside the scriptures being bad, we're not talking about Moses and the Apostles warning against Babylonian techniques of sowing, plowing or plumbing, etc, we're talking about proper biblical hermeneutics and theology. Some discernment is needed here (and everywhere, not just here).

Now are there examples of Jews in biblical times turning to the same outside heathen practices they were warned not to in the bible? Of course, and they’re even recorded in the bible ever since the golden calf incident all the way through to the Mystery Babylon system some here are dabbling in. No big wonder then, I have even rediscovered a non-biblical example of gematria used in late 1st, early 2nd century in the pseudonymous ‘Epistle of Barnabas.’ It has a Christian imposture peddling gematria in Greek text; divining ‘secret wisdom’ from the first two letters of Iesous and the Greek ‘tau’ cross shape — you can’t make this stuff up. A Christian imposture pushing gematria? Sounds familiar.

The forgery serves as an example of the same dirty trick Paul mentioned in a quote I already provided, 2Th 2.1-8, originally cited to answer the preterism suggested by the other one (3rdWoe2Slow) who also pushes gematria like the Christian imposture (like follows like) around the time of the Apostles — go figure: “For the mystery (ארזא secret, mystery) of wickedness (עולא wickedness, iniquity, lawlessness, unrighteousness, evil, vanity) has already begun to work” (2Th 2.7, cf 2.3). 'Wicked' comes from the twisting or turning of a candle wick. Sounds familiar --- just like the twisting or turning of letters into numbers and vice-versa seeking secret (ארזא) knowledge as do the practitioners of the mystery (ארזא) religions. Paul couldn't have picked a better catch-phrase to describe gematria and such.

Feel free to embrace a fake epistle with a glaring failed prophecy though, that’ll only further illustrate one must depart from the canon in the desperate scramble to find examples of gematria as I’ve maintained. Separating the wheat from the chaff.

"Many will say to me in that day, 'My Lord, my Lord, in your name have we not prophesied and in your name cast out demons and in your name done many miracles?' And then I will confess to them, 'I have never known you. Go away from me, workers of wickedness.' Therefore, everyone, who hears these words of mine and does them, will be compared to a wise man who built his house on a rock." (Mat 7.22-24 MGI).

Funny how Yeshua stresses HEARING and OBEYING his WORDS (as does Wisdom to the wise in Prov 8 & 9 who is called on in Revelation to give plain meaning to things like 666), and never WORKING OUT their NUMERICAL values nor matching them with other numerical values to seek out "secret" communications, and says those who don't hear/obey his words but work on twisting things around (אָ֑וֶן wickedness, quoting Psalm 6.8) are not his people, showing them to be impostures. Sounds familiar.

And I’m glad you brought up the Eleazar=318 example as it makes my earlier point: For one, Gen 14.14 doesn’t use numerical values of letters, it spells out the number for 318 (שְׁמֹנָ֤ה עָשָׂר֙ וּשְׁלֹ֣שׁ מֵא֔וֹת) -- funny how even the words for all the numbers don't come out to the numerical values they denote when applying gematria to them. Second, the rabbi used this example as a polemic AGAINST the pseudo-Christian epistle of Barnabas mentioned above (the two GREEK initials and a gratuitous tau = 318 thus answering to Eleazar in HEBREW... talk about clutching at straws), thus showing how gematria is a contrived mess, like a confusion of tongues (Babel) and cancels itself out just as I’ve said before.

www.studylight.org/language-studies/difficult-sayings.html?article=509
http://jewishchristianlit.com/Texts/NT/barnabas.html

[update, I just found this:"the 12th-century biblical exegete and arch-rationalist Abraham ibn Ezra, commenting on Genesis 14, stated that “the sum of the letters of Eliezer is only a homily, because Scripture does not resort to gematria. Whoever wants to, can [by using it] get any name to mean anything. Names are just names.”"

Gematria in action, put to the test:

In the latter part of the 16th century, for instance, the notion spread in kabbalistic circles that the year of redemption was nigh, based on the cryptic statement in Genesis 49:10, “The staff shall not depart from Judah . . . until Shiloh comes.” Inasmuch as the shin (300), lamed (30), and heh (5) of Shiloh added up to 335, the messiah’s coming was prophesied for the Hebrew year 5335, the Christian year 1575. When it failed to materialize, a new calculation, built on the gematria of mashiaḥ, “messiah,” pushed the date onward to 1598.

OOPS! Good thing they weren't living in OT times.. you know what did to false prophets...]
Full article: https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/2...ald-trump/

So the example helps show gematria is a foundation of sand and unfaithful to the scriptures. I hope honest people's eyes are open to this, and continuing with Paul's letter from the above quote: "and that we may be delivered from evil and dishonest [ענתא perverse, deceitful, dishonest] men, for not everyone has faith." (2Th 3.2 MGI) ie, not everyone has faith who says so, being dishonest, deceitful impostures.

And neither “Yeshua” nor “Messiah” equals 53 with the basic standard (and unbiblical) numeric system as used in the example with 318 where שׁ = 300 instead of 21. One must arbitrarily switch around to a different (unbiblical) system to find something that fits the agenda which just further highlights the gimmicky nature of this whole farce and the mindset of those who indulge in all this and push it on others. I guess the Word of God just isn't good enough the way it is for some.

See chart: www.kabbalah.info/eng/content/view/frame/60271?/eng/content/view/full/60271&main

And like the Christian imposture in the Barnabas epistle, why not mix and match Greek and Hebrew, names and initials, or any other combinations you can think of? Maybe you ought to reconsider dropping such blatant hokum before throwing God's straight and narrow Way under the bus. Is it possible God's word is fine just the way it is and you don't need to swap out letters for numbers to find "secret" connections like occultists do?

"Enter by the straight door because wide is the door and broad [is] the road [אורחא "way"] that leads to loss and many are those who go in it. How narrow the door and straight the road [אורחא "way"] that leads to life and few are those who find it." (Mat 7.13-4 MGI, with my notes)

I'm glad to expose these tactics of the enemy of the straight Way (Act 9.2; 19.9) as modern examples of what the Apostles had to contend with in their day from Gnostic heretics and others, even impostures among the faithful seeking to mislead and ensnare them, like a virus trying to infect the host by inserting corrupt information into teachings and  discussions that might otherwise sound reasonable.


As a brief experiment, let’s pretend “Yeshua” and “Messiah” actually did have the same numerical values using the basic numerical value system and method to see if there’s any significance to this or just a chance occurrence, and check values on other nouns or phrases describing Yeshua:

“Yeshua said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life” (Joh 14.6)

Yeshua (ישׁוע) = 386
Way (אורחא) = 216
Truth (שׁררא) = 701
Life (חיא) = 19

Oops. No luck. Ok, how about:

Lamb (אמרה)  = 246
Lamb of God (אמרה דאלהא) = 287
Son of David (ברה דדויד) = 235
Savior (מחינה) = 113
Savior of the world (מחינה דעלמא) = 258

Nope nothing but a waste of time. But hey, maybe like a broken clock something will eventually sync up and the next thing you know "nachash" = "moshiach," then what? Uh oh.. time to start worshiping the "holy serpent"..

Perhaps I need more faith in gematria?

Or maybe it’s just a fool's game ignorant of logic and understanding of God's straightforward Way and that’s why the bible warns against such foolish heathen practices.

We can see from these examples gematria is arbitrary and contrived, deceptive, and of course only the pairs people like are held up while the super vast majority of results are discarded. Then you have to cherry-pick an interpretation of what the cherry-picked examples supposedly mean, but which interpretation do you select since there are no biblical examples for guidance? What law do you abide by in your interpretation and practice of mystery theology? Is this not the "mystery" of wickedness/lawlessness/vanity spoken of by Paul?

There are occasional amusing occurrences like everything else involving statistical probabilities — that’s the whole seductive nature of it and why many are addicted to it like astrology. It’s like a form of theological gambling (hey there’s a new one) and quite superstitious.

Example: 18 is considered “lucky” among many Jews because it equals “chai” in Hebrew (but in Aramaic it’s 19 as seen above.. hmm not sure how lucky 19 is, maybe 1 point more lucky??) but of course others may use other interpretations and say that since 6+6+6 = 18 it is therefore "unlucky," soo who’s superstitious interpretation do you arbitrarily pick over someone else’s arbitrarily picked superstitious interpretation?? and by what authority is it based on? Plus there are other things that equal 18 (and 19), what about them and who decides what those mean and their relation and on and on? It’s complete quackery, hence the global pyramid hierarchy scheme of gullible occultists under mind-control working for Satan’s kingdom (like “secret” intelligence groups) LOVE it. Just don't be surprised when the serpent you think is so cool bites you. 

So if this and all the other desperate ploys, loaded questions, strawmen, frauds, jokes, gimmicks, dodges, word games and emotional appeals here and forthcoming are the best defense for gematria -- which itself does zero to undo all the layers of proof positive for a biblical census -- then it only makes me that much more satisfied in the stack of evidence for the census, and I haven't even laid it all out.

I cannot spend more time here then I already have wasted answering to all the warblings, no it’s all just a smokescreen and distraction from the census and fact that gematria is a satanic fraud as part of the "secret" Babylonian system John and Paul warned about. It's already come down to lots of repetition for me. I’ll pass on the endlessly winding rabbit trails and abandonment of logic in the name of logic.

O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge," {gnosis} for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. (1Ti 6.20-21 ESV)

I'll address a few more things that might be relevant for us to note and leave others to their swirling thoughts and feelings until someone with knowledge grounded in plain truth and discernment wants to discuss things on biblical terms with biblically-sound exegesis because there’s more important information to discuss but Yeshua advises not to cast pearls, etc.. Perhaps that rubs some the wrong way. We can agree to disagree and I won’t be upset if you find your way off my thread. Fair enough?

Now to be sure, gematria leads down the dark path to the harlot (cf Pro 9.17-8) because it sets the precedent of allowing other unwarranted, unsound practices warned against, thus it is unfaithful like the seducing harlot to the Word of God (cf Prov 7.25-7) as John describes it in Revelation. Gematria is also dangerous because it sets up a false expectation for the numerical value of the antichrist’s name to equal 666, so when he finally does appear and his numerical name doesn’t equal 666, people will say he can’t be the ac, as intended.

It could also potentially be used in a contrived dialectic to set up a FALSE antichrist (pontifex maximus/pope? alien hoax?) who fulfills the widespread false expectations as a decoy for the REAL antichrist (kohen gadol, king) to overcome in an epic showdown as everyone expects their messiahs to do, including Christians, Jews and even Muslims —the latter two have traditions that say the ac will come and destroy Christians which they lump all together, so genuine Christians may be lumped in with the pope (the decoy, perhaps even complicit); both the books of Daniel and Revelation indicate that the saints (holy ones) of God will be overcome by the ac as well (great tribulation).

[BTW, we hear about the 'church' growing in places like China and India, but do we know if they are receiving sound doctrine or being set-up, bombarded with counter-intelligence spies and propaganda infiltrating every corner of the WWWiretap and institutions as we find in the west? Why would hackers target pro Aramaic websites as happened many years back around 2007? (anybody have background on this)? Similar hostility is found from gatekeepers on Wikipedia and Youtube, I've personally experienced. Could there also be plants on this very forum seeking to control the discussion, misguide you  and attack good biblical info from spreading? The ancient Christian communities slaughtered by "ISIS" while everyone cheers 'American Idol' or its equivalent in other countries getting new generations acclimated to the idea of worshiping 'idols', etc. What do you think the trillions being spent on in domestic and foreign clandestine projects or "secret" operations are for? This is what micro-managed world domination to pave the way for the ac looks like.. the Russian 'troll farms' so pervasive and persistent is only one tiny tip of it and itself may be a decoy for a much more serious, larger operation.]

Same with the MoB = microchip theory, many are looking in the wrong direction so when the antichrist introduces a renewed marriage covenant as fulfillment of the mark/name they won’t see it coming, PLUS the text speaks of receiving the mark in the right hand or forehead so for those who take that literally, when/if there's a mandate to chip the population and they’re given the option of taking it (or an rfid, or something else entirely, or nothing at all) in the LEFT hand or wherever, then they’re less likely to resist because it doesn’t meet their false expectations. People on the gematria bandwagon are already primed to be deceived by Satan (further) at this point and drink from the toxic cup of the harlot.



Quote:“It is clear that the precise number is provided for some reason, but what is it?”


So since we have a precise number here, is it therefore clear we need to turn to the heathen practice of gematria and look for occult meaning? By who's authority God's or man's? If man's then who decides what other reasoning we can use or not use to justify this approach and others to look for "secret" knowledge? This is the Mystery/secret of wickedness/lawlessness that was already going on in Paul's day and we can see a perfect example of in the Epistle of Barnabas.

So, taking this logick to its conclusion, now it becomes clear (to who? why anyone who says so now that man has usurped authority from God, and just "think whatever you want dude") that the precise numbers provided in Ezra’s census (and many other things for that matter) must be for some reason too, but what could they be?

 3 the sons of Parosh, 2,172;
 4 the sons of Shephatiah, 372;
 5 the sons of Arah, 775;
 6 the sons of Pahath-moab of the sons of Jeshua and Joab, 2,812;
 7 the sons of Elam, 1,254;
 8 the sons of Zattu, 945;
 9 the sons of Zaccai, 760;
 10 the sons of Bani, 642;
 11 the sons of Bebai, 623;
 12 the sons of Azgad, 1,222;
 13 the sons of Adonikam, 666;
 14 the sons of Bigvai, 2,056;
 15 the sons of Adin, 454;
 16 the sons of Ater of Hezekiah, 98;
 17 the sons of Bezai, 323;
 18 the sons of Jorah, 112;
 19 the sons of Hashum, 223;
 20 the sons of Gibbar, 95;
 21 the men of Bethlehem, 123;
 22 the men of Netophah, 56;
 23 the men of Anathoth, 128;
 24 the sons of Azmaveth, 42;
 25 the sons of Kiriath-arim, Chephirah and Beeroth, 743;
 26 the sons of Ramah and Geba, 621;
 27 the men of Michmas, 122;
 28 the men of Bethel and Ai, 223;
 29 the sons of Nebo, 52;
 30 the sons of Magbish, 156;
 31 the sons of the other Elam, 1,254;
 32 the sons of Harim, 320;
 33 the sons of Lod, Hadid and Ono, 725;
 34 the men of Jericho, 345;
 35 the sons of Senaah, 3,630.
 36 The priests: the sons of Jedaiah of the house of Jeshua, 973;
 37 the sons of Immer, 1,052;
 38 the sons of Pashhur, 1,247;
 39 the sons of Harim, 1,017.
 40 The Levites: the sons of Jeshua and Kadmiel, of the sons of Hodaviah, 74.
 41 The singers: the sons of Asaph, 128.

(Ezr 2.3-41 NAU)

There’s plenty more where that came from to fill perhaps a lifetime of endless gematria guessing and speculation.. in fact what the heck are you doing here? Go find you some hidden magick dudes! I’ll even throw in the chapter and verse numbers free!!


Quote:S. Gevirtz notes that 318 is the sum of all the prime numbers between 7 and 72, to wit: 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, & 47. [“Abram’s 318,” Israel Exploration Journal 19 (1969):110-113.] There are twelve primes in this set. Certainly, then, 318 is an interesting number, incorporating both 7 and 12.


Very impressive you just might have convinced me to convert. Where do I sign my soul in blood, brother?

//But WAIT, there's MORE!!! <infomercial music starts playing>

For a limited time I've included ANOTHER prime number (another prime number??) That's right Bob, ANOTHER prime number! Get ready for the super STAR [pentagram] number 5!! <crowd woooo's>

Now you can get MORE prime numbers in a ROW, from 5 to 47 for the SAME LOW PRICE!! <crowd cheers approvingly>

This brings the sum to a GRAND TOTAL of 323!!! <crowd applause fills the air>

And my 323 has the additional BONUS MAGICK feature that allows you to write it in REVERSE ORDER and it stays the SAME!!!! (Bob: And you thought occult practitioners didn't know if they were coming or going before! ha-ha!) <crowd goes wild>

<starts in a low voice and builds up> Behold a new mystery: 323 is the number of MEN of BEZAI in the CENSUS IN EZRAHHH 2.17!!!! <crowd starts to riot and rushes the stage>

And now! MYSTERY OF MYSTERIES!!! -- Bezai (בֵצָ֔י) is 2+90+10 and equals 102! Now add 1+0+2, AND RECEIVE THE  3!! ANOTHER PRIME NUMBER!!!!!! THESE 3 ARE IN ONE!!!!! -- BEZAI IS THE FIRST PRIME!!!!! IT IS HE, THE FIRST 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<crowd falls down and starts worshiping the number 323 and chanting, "O great Conqueror of numbers you are the chosen 1, the PRIME 1 and first of THE ALL! All Hail Bezai mighty Conqueror, the primordial 1 and beginning of all numbers! Hear, O heaven and earth, Bezai our Lord is 1! He's number 1! He's number 1! aaauuuu!! aaaauuuuu!!>
//



What I already said dood, it's a ridiculous game of chance and fancy by suckers for suckers. It's a silly illustration, yes, for a silly but dangerous practice. Enjoy.


Quote:“they say that there is no evidence for the use of gematria (see previous article) among the Jews prior to the Hellenistic period”

Even if there was evidence that doesn’t somehow validate it anymore than Jews worshiping golden calves is validated by virtue of it occurring prior to the Hellenistic period. More awesome logick on display.


Quote:“To this we must reply that there is no evidence against it either.”


That's a joke right? Cold leftovers already? That’s the same absurd logick served up last time which you avoided my response to. It didn’t work before and it doesn’t work now, nor will it the next 100 times. This needs to be called out for the dangerous stupidity that it is.

So doing this one more time, let’s take your ill logick to its conclusion: why stop with gematria?? Why not trust the Ouija board to ‘glorify’ God?? There’s no evidence against it in the bible either, right? Why not trust an AI super computer (Oracle?) to interpret the bible for us? Why not trust Google’s (Alphabet Inc) world brain to reveal the magickal secrets of the alephbet? Why not trust Sophia the AI bot? This sounds absurd because it is absurd but there's literally no reason not to take it that far, it's blind harlotry and pure chaos and disorder -- mystery of wickedness/lawlessness (2The 2.7).

If I were to use ouija on biblical texts and received a divine message that said “do not practice the dark art of gematria” or “gematria is satanic stupidity” who has authority to gainsay?? Now it's canceled out.

Like you and the other one says, you’re free to think however you want dood (which is what you're actually pushing people to do, but I say follow God's narrow path He's infinitely wiser than anyone or anything) and so is everyone else, so I guess everyone decides for themselves now and each is their own authority on how they go about interpreting the bible creating another Babel of confusion. Is this enlightenment? Why stay on the straight and narrow road when you can drive off a cliff and be freeee!

Why stop with Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek texts? Why aren’t English and other translations allowed? Where does the bible expressly say you can’t? Why not read the text upside down for dark light to the glory of the Most High, dood? Gematria is a satanic joke.

Again, this ‘logic’ cancels itself out. It’s anti-logic. It’s not clever. It’s a CANCER and an insult to any honest, thinking person with integrity no matter how hard one tries to sound all “gosh golly Im just twying to do my best you big meanie.. (here’s some more poison for you sucker haha!)… gosh you hoit my feewings!” That's disgusting, manipulative, sociopathic.

There’s a time to call a fool a fool and a liar a liar and rebuke sharply, as Yeshua and the Apostles did. The eternal destiny of souls are on the line here, a bruised ego is nothing to that.

But those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them. (Pro 24.25)

Better is open rebuke than hidden love. (Pro 27.5)

It is better for a man to hear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools. (Ecc 7.5)

preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. (2Ti 4.2)

He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. (Tit 1.9)

This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, (Tit 1.13)


Now here’s a bombshell that really shouldn't be. Apparently even the NUMERICAL VALUES of the letters are NOT BIBLICAL, but were imported from heathens, namely Greece (albeit who probably received it from Babylonians or other Semitic groups) and these alpha-numeric systems are not authorized in the bible in the first place! Any biblically-authorized examples that refute this find are welcome, so share em if you got em. Actual real examples please, not vague suggestions and imagination, personal feelings, serpentine logick, etc.

This is another DEVASTATING blow to gematria. I mean gematria was already murdered and toe-tagged as totally unbiblical satanic trickery despite who might play Weekend at Bernie’s with it, but now this? This?? — this is just flogging a dead corpse now! I feel ashamed for you and that I'm even wasting so much time on this when I could be moving forward with deeper research in more fruitful areas (hence the goal of counter-intelligence agents to stall and retard progress in knowledge and understanding, blacking out the light wherever possible, inverting logic for the hierarchy of suckerz who can't compete on a level playing field and  have to  murder their way to (temporal) control and wealth ("those who hate me love death") stealing other people's research and ideas via WWWiretap since they have none of their own and pose as their opposites since they don't dare show their true dark colors openly and honestly showing even they know they are hideous creatures who must hide from the light, their own obscene nature being their best defense from detection from those who do not see, and proving themselves as the losers that they are - winners don't need to cheat boys and girls - you'll find out the hard way and cancel yourselves out from the book of life.). But like I said, it’d be nice to get more sources to verify this further. With that, here’s what I came across:

“Under   Macedonian   rule,   the   Jews   also   adopted   the   Greek   alphabetic   system   of   numeration,   which   soon   became   well   established   in  Judea.   Jewish   use   of  the   alphabet   for  numbers   is   first  found   on   coins   of   the   Maccabean   period   (second   century   B.C.E.),   and   the   system  was  apparently  introduced   even   in   the  Temple   itself,  where  Greek   letters   were   also   used   to   indicate   numbers. 1   It   is   therefore   surprising   to   note   that   many   writers   persist   in   the   misconception   that  alphabetic   numerals   were   first   invented   by  the  Jews,  when,   in   fact,  they  were  half  a  millennium   behind   the   Greeks   in   using   such   a system.”

Footnote 1: Shek.   3.2;   cited   in   G.   Scholem,   Kabbalah    (Jerusalem:   Keter   Publishing   House,    1974)    p. 337

Source: Barry, Kieren - The Greek Qabalah (Alphabetic Mysticism and Numerology in the Ancient World). 1999. p173
http://www.mysticknowledge.org/The-Greek...-World.pdf

Notice how the author appropriately expresses the same sentiment of surprise at how many are under the unfounded assumption to its origin or validity as I expressed at the widespread erroneous assumption of gematria being biblically-kosher. Meanwhile people are doubling down as if they have any ground to stand on, like Wile-E Coyote airborne off a cliff not realizing it until he looks down. It's self-imposed mind-control, and if you try to alert some zombies they attack you! Very few people (if ANY!) understand what John is revealing vis-a-vis 666 in the 1900+ years of research, at least from what I have found -- or haven’t. It’s pretty spooky. And the reception of this breakthrough info here is just…wow. All I can do is my small part, move on to others and leave the rest to the Holy Spirit, I personally don't want any kudos, my reward is with the Lord.

Now I know some are desperate and reaching hard or reverting to 1st grade defense mechanisms, and I can already hear them saying, “Aha! See? They were using it in the temple! THE TEMPLE!!!” Yeah no kidding, they weren’t supposed to if it wasn’t authorized (provide actual solid biblical evidence if it was), and we know they were doing lots of things they weren’t supposed to be doing even in the second temple, why else did Master Lord Yeshua throw out the money changers and merchants from the temple? Read from Exodus onward for plenty of examples of the Jews doing things they were told not to by God starting with the golden calf idols (plural, Exo 32.4) incident all the crooked way down to the imitation Messiah and imitation Wisdom, Qabbalistic-Gnosticism's 'Sophia' occult goddess that receives artificial (imitation) life and artificial (imitation) intelligence set in the future Freemasonic (imitation) temple whorehouse of mysteries, counterfeiting God's spouse represented on earth through his nation of priests in God's house (cf Rev 1.6; 22.17) Pro 9.1: "Wisdom has built her house [temple], She has hewn out her seven pillars; She has  prepared her food, she has mixed her wine; She has also set her table; She has sent out her maidens, she calls From the tops of the heights of the city" (Pro 9.1-3 NAU, my note in brackets)"

So it appears the numerical values assigned to Hebrew letters are unbiblical and were never authorized by God and neither is divining occult messages using satanic, gnostic methods like gematria so that’s a double whammy. God knows that won’t stop some from loving it like crack to a junkie, so help yourself. I pray everyone would stop and accept the perfect Wisdom of God's Word straight on, but I guess some count themselves unworthy of God's pure open free gift and must learn the hard-headed devil's self-defeating way shunning God's Wisdom, "but he who fails to find me injures himself" (Pro 8.36 ESV).


Quote:Interesting that around the time of the apostles in Israel gematria was explicitly associated with wisdom

Did you read my post? I mentioned the traditions used by gnostics who posed as Christians which the Apostles contended with along with Pharisees and Judaizers the most: "The vain traditions of men are what Yeshua and the Apostles contended with the most, from the Pharisees then Judaizers and also the Gnostics (now merged under Qabbalism found in so many mystery schools like Freemasonry)" That includes their occult systems of "secret wisdom" which gematria is a part of, hence squarely in the lap of Mystery Babylon the Harlot. Get it?

Gnostics were co-opting early Christianity, originating with Simon Magus and his female partner Helena who played the role of Sophia (Wisdom), God's (played by Simon) spouse, a perversion of God's Wisdom from Prov 8 & 9.

John's Revelation book gives a glimpse of the final outcome when this gnostic-qabbalistic system comes to a head in the future Freemasonic temple in Jerusalem. This theology of "secret wisdom" from Mystery/Secret Babylon the mother harlot which gematria is part of is warned against, and is a satanic inversion of the Wisdom of God (Prov 8 & 9) and is ironically used to conceal the revelation of John's 666 under the guise of being the way to understand it! Pure serpentine logick.

Just as you have Christ vs antichrist, you have Wisdom (virgin bride) vs Mystery Babylon (mother harlot).

Irenaeus, a Gentile, wrote extensively of the early gnostics and their perverted ways, and makes me wonder if maybe some of their teachings didn't rub off on him a little when he entertained gematria. But to his credit he did warn against it seeing it as unwise, so good on him.


Quote:Regarding “wisdom” in Revelation 13.18, a precedent is found in Revelation 17.9, because it uses similar language: “Here is logic to him having wisdom: seven heads are seven mountains where she sat, the woman upon them.”
Applying that precedent to your theory: does counting heads from 1 to 666 require logic or wisdom?  That was my question.

And here was my answer:

“The “secret” and “mystery” Babylonian occult system of wresting “secret wisdom” from numeric values and permutations thereof requiring man’s ingenuity is the exact OPPOSITE of the straightforward open spirit of Wisdom John was calling attention to:

"All the utterances of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing crooked or perverted in them.
"They are all straightforward to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge. (Pro 8.8-9 NAU)

The meaning is as plain as the text but not, say, in the grubby hands of a benighted occultist Crowley-trolley.

As I said before, John was very plain and fool-proofing this “revelation” with his language and references and it has nothing, nothing to do with having a high IQ mastermind super genius deciphering mumbo jumbo, that none may boast. But if you do not humble yourself as a child and hear the word of Wisdom and receive her knowledge freely, not under cursed oaths in secret rites in dark chambers or coffins, then you will not understand and stay in darkness and blind no matter how many all-seeing eyes you surround yourself with, there is no light in you. From darkness to darkness.

So what religion are you anyways?”


As understanding is imparted by LISTENING (paying attention) to wisdom given in Rev 13.18, likewise the angel in Revelation 17 is imparting wisdom by speaking for us to hear so we might have better “understanding” (הונא - mind; reason, intelligence; understanding) which denotes perceiving; your translation of “logic” on the other hand, which you carefully selected despite the plain meaning in the context, denotes reasoning which does not fit the context since John is receiving הונא (understanding) by LISTENING to what the angel tells him - listening is a perception and logic is not a perception, that’s why your cherry-picked definition to translate הונא doesn’t work and leads you to ask loaded questions (as usual) that retards plain understanding which is made abundantly clear in Wisdom's teaching in Prov 8 & 9 to anyone who studies it but you need to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your agenda to water down the word of God and push unbiblical man-made traditions — you are seeking to complicate this any way possible and obviously rather use Prov 8 & 9 as toilet paper than accept it plainly as it tells us to so we can understand — and we understand if we listen to Wisdom in the scriptures and hear her most direct teaching in Prov 8 & 9, not relying on our own “logic” (just look at all the ill-logickal chatter you have submitted, “logical hierarchy?” oh the irony) nor relying on fickle emotions and feelings and man-made contrivances, but leaning on God’s understanding and not making up stuff when we don’t know, keeping our mouths shut tight and ears open.

“A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel” (Pro 1.5 NAU)
Pay heed, you senseless among the people; And when will you understand, stupid ones?” (Psa 94.8 NAU)
“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction” (Pro 1.7 NAU)
“The wise of heart will receive commands, But a babbling fool will be ruined.” (Pro 10.8 NAU)

Now here’s what was edited out of context of Rev 17.9 while inserting a loaded translation then misapplied back into Rev 13.18 to re-ask a stupefied question, which was already answered, after ignoring (twice) Prov 8 & 9 which clears it all up, while feigning the wish to understand but as I predicted in advance: the meaning is clear but not in the grubby hands of a benighted occultist..., [you think maybe I've done this before and know their move before they do?]

"You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, so that you may nourish your desires." (Jam 4.3 MGI)

Here’s what was thoughtfully edited out of the context:

“And the angel said to me, "Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery [or "secret"] of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.” (Rev 17.7 NAU, my note in brackets)

This informs us how 17.9 should be translated in its proper context and in light of reference to Wisdom from Proverbs 8 & 9: “Here is the mind which has wisdom (“mind,” Gk nous: mind, understanding, reason; cf Magiera’s Aramaic-English translation “understanding”).

The angel speaks to reveal the “secret” which John must hear to better understand. The angel is not giving a new puzzle for John to figure out by applying “logic,” that does not make sense and itself is illogical.

I know I’m re-stating the same thing in different ways, but so does Wisdom, almost desperately, to make the reader understand if anyone wants to study Prov 8 & 9.. please do. Or.. you can just dive right into the “secret wisdom” (an oxymoron, hence the anti-logic, paradoxical thinking) of gematria and destroy yourself.

"Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine." (Pro 8.14 NAU)

I keep pointing to Prov 8 & 9 because it makes plain the meaning of why Wisdom is called for when there is a mystery or secret, because she literally makes plain the understanding of mysteries freely (the counterfeit "secret wisdom" creates mysteries of plain things, 666 being one example) and the understanding comes by LISTENING to her and HEEDING her instruction. Do not make her straightforward ways crooked as those who are of death and murder [— speaking of which, last Friday night (2017-12-15) there was a great booming gunshot about 40 paces or so from where I sit while I was working on a revision to this post as I’m doing now off and on for a few days, and by God’s grace no one was killed but there was something very strange about it that I will try to explain soon on the blog, God willing, that fits a larger pattern of creepy 'coincidences' discussed there that have been happening for a long time, more so recently, and has now touched on my discussion here involving “secret” messages and those "secret" groups behind them already mentioned. Open your ears to what I’m saying. This is not a hoax.].

This is explained in those chapters with passages like these:

"Now therefore, O sons, listen to me, For blessed are they who keep my ways.
 "Heed instruction and be wise, And do not neglect it.
 "Blessed is the man who listens to me, Watching daily at my gates, Waiting at my doorposts.
 "For he who finds me finds life And obtains favor from the LORD.
 "But he who sins against me [or, "misses me"] injures himself; All those who hate me love death." (Pro 8.32-36 NAU)

The "revelation" of 666 doesn’t require man "figuring" it out as we might imagine, but by knowing the Word and paying attention to it and searching it; by receiving the revelation and understanding freely given and getting our man-made ideas and traditions (gematria) out of the way of God’s revelations and simply count in accordance with the biblically-approved practice when the time comes. Counting doesn't require logic on our part and itself is an illogical view in this context, and so asking how logic is needed is a loaded question and is at odds with the language and context, but if you force gematria into the text you will go astray and will not understand, “Thus you have abolished the word of Aloha for the sake of your tradition.” (Mat 15.5 ETH)

So Moses and Aaron took these men who had been designated by name, and they assembled all the congregation together on the first of the second month. Then they registered by ancestry in their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, head by head, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.. (Num 1.17-19 NAU)

There is no "logic" needed in this operation, just straight forward instructions, just like there's no logic required in Rev 17.9 we only need to search the scriptures to answer lingering questions.

As long as people refuse to accept the word of Wisdom they will remain in darkness and not comprehend the light. This is the wisdom of God, He blinds the crooked ones who pervert the straight ways of God:

“And when they had traveled around all the island as far as the city [of] Paphos, they found a certain man, a Judean sorcerer, who was a false prophet, whose name was Barshuma. This [man] attended a wise man, who was the proconsul and was called Sergius Paulus. And the proconsul called for Saul and Barnabas and asked to hear the word of God from them. And this sorcerer, Barshuma, whose name is interpreted Elymas, was standing against them, because he wanted to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was called Paul, was filled with the Holy Spirit and looked at him and said, "Oh full of all treacheries and all evil [things], son of the Accuser and enemy of all uprightness, will you not cease to pervert the straight ways of the LORD? And now the hand of the LORD [is] on you and you will be blind and you will not see the sun for a time." And immediately a thick darkness and blindness fell on him and he wandered around and looked for one who would take [him] by his hand. And when the proconsul saw what had happened, he was amazed and believed in the teaching of the LORD.” (Act 13.6-12 MGI)



Quote:There is also a new testament precedent: the head tax

Luke 2.1 is often still presumed to be an empire-wide tax and many critics of the NT seize on this to point out that there is no record of such a tax during this time therefore Luke is a bad historian, can’t be trusted, etc. They however stubbornly fail to acknowledge (ignorantly or deceptively) that the underlying text doesn’t say tax, in neither Greek nor Aramaic, but rather “enrollment” or ketab (write, copy, inscribe, register, enroll) which, in the fine work of the late Ernest L. Martin, points to a little known oath of allegiance or loyalty to Caesar in a bid to stave off a possible rebellion (which the Jews ended up having eventually leading to the sacking of Jerusalem and temple’s destruction and wiping Jews off the map) being aware of the ancient oracles (from Daniel) of the expected Messiah from the east as were many others per Josephus and John 4.25 during this time (not to mention a prior false-start from a different group of magi Suetonius tells of that alerted the Roman senate) which explains why the Roman puppet Herod and all in Jerusalem were troubled at the news from the magi leading to the slaughter of all possible candidates to the throne. Eusebius later records how the House of David was specifically targeted later by Vespasian and Domitian (extended quote for interest):

“He also relates that Vespasian after the conquest of Jerusalem gave orders that all that
belonged to the lineage of David should be sought out, in order that none of the royal race
might be left among the Jews; and in consequence of this a most terrible persecution again
hung over the Jews.” (Eusebius, Ecc Hist, Book 3 Ch 12.)

But when this same Domitian had commanded that the descendants of David should
be slain, an ancient tradition says719 that some of the heretics brought accusation against
the descendants of Jude (said to have been a brother of the Saviour according to the flesh),
on the ground that they were of the lineage of David and were related to Christ himself.
Hegesippus relates these facts in the following words.
1. “Of the family of the Lord there were still living the grandchildren of Jude, who is
said to have been the Lord’s brother according to the flesh.720
2. Information was given that they belonged to the family of David, and they were
brought to the Emperor Domitian by the Evocatus.721 For Domitian feared the coming of
Christ as Herod also had feared it. And he asked them if they were descendants of David,
and they confessed that they were. Then he asked them how much property they had, or
how much money they owned. And both of them answered that they had only nine thousand
denarii,722 half of which belonged to each of them;
4. and this property did not consist of silver, but of a piece of land which contained only
thirty-nine acres, and from which they raised their taxes723 and supported themselves by
their own labor.”724
5. Then they showed their hands, exhibiting the hardness of their bodies and the callousness
produced upon their hands by continuous toil as evidence of their own labor.
6. And when they were asked concerning Christ and his kingdom, of what sort it was
and where and when it was to appear, they answered that it was not a temporal nor an earthly
kingdom, but a heavenly and angelic one, which would appear at the end of the world, when
he should come in glory to judge the quick and the dead, and to give unto every one according
to his works.
7. Upon hearing this, Domitian did not pass judgment against them, but, despising
them as of no account, he let them go, and by a decree put a stop to the persecution of the
Church.
8. But when they were released they ruled the churches because they were witnesses725
and were also relatives of the Lord.726 And peace being established, they lived until the time
of Trajan. These things are related by Hegesippus.
9. Tertullian also has mentioned Domitian in the following words:727 “Domitian also,
who possessed a share of Nero’s cruelty, attempted once to do the same thing that the latter
did. But because he had, I suppose, some intelligence,728 he very soon ceased, and even recalled
those whom he had banished.”
10. But after Domitian had reigned fifteen years,729 and Nerva had succeeded to the
empire, the Roman Senate, according to the writers that record the history of those days,730
voted that Domitian’s honors should be cancelled, and that those who had been unjustly
banished should return to their homes and have their property restored to them.
11. It was at this time that the apostle John returned from his banishment in the island
and took up his abode at Ephesus, according to an ancient Christian tradition.731
(Ibid. Book 3 Ch 19-20.)


So Luke spoke of an enrollment or registration of the Roman empire as decreed by Caesar as happens during a census and lo, we find in Hebrews 12.22 a heavenly counter-example using the same term for enrollment in both Greek and Aramaic texts (see also Ezek 13.9 for an OT example) recalling the census of the congregation, like the 144,000, enrolled as citizens of heavenly Jerusalem (contra earthly Jerusalem, the great harlot), written in the book of life you could say, serving as a model of how the antichrist has a census of his people vs God who has his people numbered in a census, given their respective marks/names in marriage covenants (the anti-Messiah marries the harlot (earthly Jerusalem), the Messiah marries the virgin bride (heavenly Jerusalem), as a wife bears the name of the husband in marriage (Is 4.1), recalling the Sinai covenant text which Jews bore on their hands and forehead fulfilling the covenant text itself in concrete outward form (Mt 23.5).

“But you have come near to the mountain of Zion and to the city of the living God, to the Jerusalem that is in heaven, and to the multitudes of numbers of angels and to the church {assembly, congregation} of the firstborn, who are written (כתב) in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spiritual [things] of the upright [ones] who are matured, and to Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant, and to the sprinkling of his blood that speaks more than that of Abel.” (Heb 12.22-24 MGI, my notes in braces {})

This further illustrates the dichotomy of the heavenly vs earthly census for their respective kingdoms and more corroborating evidence for the case of the antichrist’s census of the 666, the number of his name, vs the number of God’s Name, the 144,000. And just as Yeshua came soon after a census was conducted by Caesar, He will come again soon after a census by the antichrist and Jerusalem will again be troubled at His coming, “That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun." (Ecc 1.9 NAU)


Quote:Perhaps that could be another way a census relates to money & taxation


A tax could very well take part in the service of the temple of the antichrist since in Exodus 30.12-6 Moses was instructed to redeem the numbered with a temple tax, half shekel, for their souls, to stay the plague from the numbering and make atonement. John’s language of the antichrist’s policy of equality under the covenant echoes the language of equality of the Sinai covenant:

“The rich shall not pay more and the poor shall not pay less than the half shekel” (Exo 30.15 NAU)

“and to cause all, small and great, rich and poor, lords and servants, to be given a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads” (Rev 13.16 MGI)

Moses was speaking of a temple tax to atone for the numbering, not for buying or selling. However, there was buying and selling associated with the temple as I’ve pointed out in the first post, it was for the temple offerings and sacrifices as shown in the Gospels. John’s language ties in this element too:

“And Jesus entered the temple of God and threw out all who were buying and selling in the temple. And he overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the chairs of those who were selling doves.” (Mat 21.12 MGI, from Aramaic)

And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. (Mat 21.12 NAU, from Greek)

“and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.” (Rev 13.17 NAU, from Greek, see Aramaic too)



We have several OT and Gospel parallels in John’s language pointing to a renewed old covenant and new temple and its administration to be set up by the false Elijah and false Messiah, and a census of the tribes dovetails with this scenario as it did in the cited references to a census conducted by Moses and Ezra (this is not to speak of many more temple allusions in other chapters, of both heavenly and earthly temples) -- gematria does not fit in the picture other than as being part of the satanic guiding spirit of Jezebel or the scarlet woman aka Mystery Babylon vs God's guiding spirit of Wisdom to the faithful bride during this time which John warned of and Paul mentioned already in effect during his time. Some of the parallels include:

the covenant language of taking the name/mark as a spiritual seal as in the Sinai which led to building the sanctuary (cf Rev 7.3, 14.1; Ezek 9.4,6);

the numbering of the people for genealogical records kept in the temple (Ezek 13.9) and also for war (Num 1.2-3);

the equal treatment of all including rich and poor under the covenant (sealed with the spiritual name/mark, not the same thing as the ‘number of the name/man’ census but included in it);

the buying/selling of sacrifices and offerings in the temple for those who accept the covenant symbolized spiritually as a name or brand/mark (of the name) of ownership or family affiliation on the forehead and hand in dedication of thoughts and works as in marriage/holy matrimony, which Jews represented physically (as many do in the secular world with wedding bands on the hand) with phylacteries containing the Sinai covenant marriage terms (ie: "And it shall serve as a sign {אוֹת sign, omen, pledge, witness} to you on your hand, and as a reminder on your forehead [lit. "between your eyes"], that the law of the LORD may be in your mouth; for with a powerful hand the LORD brought you out of Egypt." (Exo 13.9 NAU) and, "So it shall serve as a sign on your hand and as phylacteries [or "frontlet-bands"] on your forehead [lit."between your eyes"], for with a powerful hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt." (Exo 13.16 NAU), see also Deut 6.8 and 11.18 also included in the phylacteries/tefillin).No acceptance of the covenant, no participation in buying & selling sacrificial beasts and offerings in the temple court;

John even recalls heavenly Wisdom in the midst of these temple references who as God's glory on earth was centralized in Solomon's temple over the image on the ark of the covenant as the Ruach HaQodesh but now dwells in the body of Yeshua on earth as the feminine bride vs the occultists' version called the Shekinah in the Qabbalah or Sophia by gnostics and who appears to be embodied by the image-idol abomination that receives artificial life and set up in the temple (Mat 24.15; Rev 13.15) eerily similar to the "female" pseudo-AI robot "Sophia" today being rolled out in PR stunts as a glimpse of things to come, perhaps one day imitating heavenly Wisdom who was set up in the beginning in establishing the cosmos, the heavens and earth, which the temple embodies, a nexus point of all things. Will "she" be the global interface for the Singularity/transhumanist hivemind in the Freemasonic temple binding all nations (E pluribus unum) and world philosophies into One mongrel beast (novus ordo seclorum), and spiritual harlot system in unfaithfulness to God, sold with a line of,

“Hey man what’s wrong with using all these cool world traditions and ideas and stuff to the glory of God duuude, where’s the bible say not to? Jesus woulda done it. You gotta be of the world and in it, bro. Biblical proof-texts up the wazoo and historical documentation, empirical examples, and sound reasoning?? Whatever maaan that’s just your own opinion, right woeful dood? lol”

Sounds eerily familiar.

Solomon, who built the temple and was a harlot in his own right, foreshadows the antichrist’s golden age setting up a transnational trade bloc in the mid-east, receiving 666 talents of gold yearly; he was dabbling in the occult as Josephus and occultists themselves teach.. is the 666 gold talents a biblical nod to that? I'm reminded of the irony of Irenaeus entertaining gematria while exposing the occult just as Solomon taught the Wisdom of God and then turns to the heathen version of "hidden (occult) wisdom" -- it can be seductive just like a harlot, cf Rev 2.14 & 20; he was also raising altars to the gods of other nations when he became unfaithful to the God of His fathers (1Ki 11.4-8). After the first 3.5 years of the 7-year covenant, the antichrist turns from appearing very biblical (at least on the surface) and cuts off the sacrifices and sets himself up as God in the temple.

And now in the middle east we see ISIS begin her exit and Sophia (Wisdom) enter, the idol imitating life in the news, given citizenship in Saudi Arabia of all places, just next door to Israel, programmed to talk of wanting to start a family (definition of marriage has been changed in many places now to lead up to this) and have a daughter also named Sophia, her next generation upgrade I suppose, in a marriage one day, but with who? Who will the husband be when this idol is given ruach (Rev 13.15) and set in the temple? Will humanity unite as One and merge in a global unholy marriage under the antichrist?



Quote:"we must affirm that gematria is a biblically unfounded and unwarranted practice." - Aux

No, we must not affirm your personal opinion. You are free to believe anything you like about it, though.

Perfect. Thank you for proving my point: you can’t back up your own baseless opinion against the facts (not opinion, that’s a lie — twice now, just keep going) that gematria is a biblically unfounded and unwarranted practice and that it comes from heathen occult practices,  otherwise you would have already done so but instead you chose infantile repetition.




Quote:There is nothing at all magic or mysterious about gematria.



In the occult world, yes they are used in magick (not stage magic) and considered mysterious, by definition, so you really don't know what you're talking about and have a serious problem understanding words (even before you screw them around into numbers).


Quote:It is just letters and numbers.

Exactly, that's why they shouldn't be used to look for “secret wisdom” (an oxymoron) by twisting around their original purpose, or rearrange and mutate them and cross-link them with other functions to make up ideas. Did you close your eyes (tighter) to your fellow traveller’s post immediately proceeding yours? He even admits it's man-made he just thinks it's okay, you are apparently still in denial.



Quote:In the language that was used to write the Book of Revelation, a name or a title has a number count.

Whether it does or doesn't the scriptures do not endorse the practice of representing names with numbers and vice-versa (show solid evidence, not that all you can do is assert your opinion as fact while calling my facts opinion twisting things around like a deceptive occultist -- go figure).

And the language John used matches the language of a census to a tee, TWICE, and in matching context, and that practice IS actually in the bible, you just don't like it. Too bad.

Quote:No hokus pokus there, God was just telling them that the number count of the evil beast's name/title adds up to Six Hundred, Sixty, and Six. And they would have done just that.... Counted the number of his name/title.

Wrong again, and the next time you assert your baseless opinions it'll be wrong then too, and the next time after that, and after that, and so on, but I guess when you don't have a SHRED of actual biblical proof texts, it's ALL you can do, kinda like a witch chanting to hypnotize their victims. Go figure.


Quote:“Hey, I have an idea, why don't you two write a book together.”

Funny, you're the one pushing an occult practice while I expose it as quackery. You just can't help reversing everything around like a mixed up occultist can you?  No thanks, I’ll stick with the bible and keep your satanic witchcraft out of it.
"All that openeth the matrix is mine" -Exodus 34.19a
Reply
#18
Too long...didn't read.
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#19
This was supposed to be a separate post but it got attached to the previous post instead, so here's the second edition:

Quote:"we must affirm that gematria is a biblically unfounded and unwarranted practice." - Aux

No, we must not affirm your personal opinion. You are free to believe anything you like about it, though.

Perfect. Thank you for proving my point: you can’t back up your own baseless opinion against the facts (not "personal opinion," that’s a lie — twice now, just keep going) that gematria is a biblically unfounded and unwarranted practice and secondly that it comes from heathen occult practices, otherwise you would have already done so but instead you chose worthless repetition. Just repeating your lie doesn't make it true. Each response you make that fails to show any evidence to the contrary only makes my case that much more firm.. so keep it up!

Now if that wasn't bad enough, as pointed out in my previous post with the quote and source, even the alpha-numeric practice of assigning numerical values to letters is not found in the bible but is historically found to have come from heathen sources, in this case Greece, who themselves likely inherited it from earlier sources perhaps even tracing back to Babylon (more research is warranted here). That makes gematria unbiblical on TWO levels! Wow. So copyists who introduced the alpha-numeric system in their copies of biblical manuscripts, including some copies of Revelation 13.18, did so ironically. I just checked the Crawford Codex and it spells out the number 666 as do most Greek translations that I've seen.


Quote:There is nothing at all magic or mysterious about gematria.

In the occult world, yes it is used in magick (not stage magic) and it is considered "mysterious," by definition, so you really don't know what you're talking about at all and have a serious problem understanding basic words (even before you screw them around into numbers) or are simply spreading satanic lies to deceive Christians.


Quote:It is just letters and numbers.

Exactly, that's why they shouldn't be used to look for “secret wisdom” (an oxymoron to a Christian; 1Cor 2.6-7; 2Cor 4.2-4) by twisting around their original purpose, or rearrange and mutate them and cross-link them with other functions to make up ideas contrary to the word. Did you close your eyes (tighter) to your fellow traveller’s post immediately preceding yours? He even admits it's man-made, but mixes it in with the bible anyway. You are apparently still in denial. Or something else..


Quote:In the language that was used to write the Book of Revelation, a name or a title has a number count.

Whether it does or doesn't, the scriptures do not endorse the practice of representing names with numbers and vice-versa (*show solid evidence, not that all you can do is assert your opinion as fact* while calling my facts opinion, twisting things around like a deceptive occultist -- go figure).

And the language John used matches the language of a census to a tee, TWICE, and in matching context, and that practice IS actually in the bible, you just don't like it. Too bad.


Quote:No hokus pokus there, God was just telling them that the number count of the evil beast's name/title adds up to Six Hundred, Sixty, and Six. And they would have done just that.... Counted the number of his name/title.

Wrong again, and the next time you assert your baseless opinions it'll be wrong then too, and the next time after that, and after that, and so on, but I guess when you don't have a SHRED of actual biblical proof texts, it's ALL you can do, kinda like a witch chanting to hypnotize their victims. Go figure.


Quote:“Hey, I have an idea, why don't you two write a book together.”

Funny, you're the one pushing an occult practice while I expose it as quackery. You just can't help reversing everything around like a mixed up occultist can you?  No thanks, I’ll stick with the bible and keep your satanic witchcraft out of it.
"All that openeth the matrix is mine" -Exodus 34.19a
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#20
Quote:A tax could very well take part in the service of the temple of the antichrist since in Exodus 30.12-6 Moses was instructed to redeem the numbered with a temple tax, half shekel, for their souls, to stay the plague from the numbering and make atonement. John’s language of the antichrist’s policy of equality under the covenant echoes the language of equality of the Sinai covenant:

“The rich shall not pay more and the poor shall not pay less than the half shekel” (Exo 30.15 NAU)

“and to cause all, small and great, rich and poor, lords and servants, to be given a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads” (Rev 13.16 MGI)

Moses was speaking of a temple tax to atone for the numbering, not for buying or selling. However, there was buying and selling associated with the temple as I’ve pointed out in the first post, it was for the temple offerings and sacrifices as shown in the Gospels. John’s language ties in this element too: /SNIP


Just wanted to highlight this in light of the story I posted in a new thread on the forum, New Half-Shekel Minted with Trump's Image. It's not an official half-shekel of course but sends a strong message in response to a big step, so however one looks at this it's putting ideas in peoples' heads training them to get used to it, maybe even to expect the real thing one day.
"All that openeth the matrix is mine" -Exodus 34.19a
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