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The Antioch Bible
#16
Knowing the little differences between the Western and Eastern Peshitta translations what about the Old Testament?

Also are there differences between the Peshitta Old Testament and say the NIV? Is so are there many and to what extent.

I do not know Syriac so I have to rely on the knowledge which is on this board.

thank you

TF
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#17
Quote:That surely is not much to fret over knowing only 2 verses were in dispute.

Actually they are very important changes to the text, and affect an important doctrine.
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#18
Based on what I know, the Peshitta Tanakh is more in line with the Greek Septuagint than with the traditional Masoretic Text. A good example is Psalm 3:3:

"But thou, O LORD, art a shield about me; my glory and the lifter up of my head."- JPS's 1917 translation of the Masoretic Text
"But thou, O Lord, art my helper: my glory, and the one that lifts up my head."- CL Brenton's translation of the Septuagint
"But thou, O LORD, art my help and my glory, and the lifter up of my head."- George Lamsa's translation of the Peshitta



"
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#19
When one reads the Ascetical Homilies of St. Isaac the Syrian he speaks of a shield protecting him. In that case the JPS 1917 translation of the Masoretic Text is correct!
Isaac devoted an entire chapter or Homily about this "shield" and it's Homily 54 concerning the "Maggenanutha". It's an "overshadowing" like Mary received.
Just a note for thought.

ScorpioSniper2 Wrote:Based on what I know, the Peshitta Tanakh is more in line with the Greek Septuagint than with the traditional Masoretic Text. A good example is Psalm 3:3:

"But thou, O LORD, art a shield about me; my glory and the lifter up of my head."- JPS's 1917 translation of the Masoretic Text
"But thou, O Lord, art my helper: my glory, and the one that lifts up my head."- CL Brenton's translation of the Septuagint
"But thou, O LORD, art my help and my glory, and the lifter up of my head."- George Lamsa's translation of the Peshitta



"
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#20
Sadly I can't check the Dead Sea Scrolls translation I have for this verse because Psalm 3 is not extant in the Qumram scrolls <!-- sSad --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/sad.gif" alt="Sad" title="Sad" /><!-- sSad -->
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#21
When you look it over then disclose your scholarly findings on this thread. At this time you are judging something you have not seen.


Thirdwoe Wrote:
Quote:It is taken from a West Syrian version of the 1887-91 Peshitta Mosul text. I would have thought they would have taken it from an Eastern Syrian version thereby keeping out any Western influence.

The Greek-shitta, hybrid text is an altered version of The Original form of The True Aramaic New Testament Text. These later versions of its original Text add in various verses from the Greek version, which were never part of the Original Aramaic New Testament Text... Plus they add the Western Five books, and still call it "The Peshitta".

One can keep adding things to an original 57 Chevy, and changing things out that they want it to have, but it alters the original 57 Chevy and renders it something else. When a guy wants to have a real original 57 Chevy, he looks for one that has not been altered or revised.

I haven't looked it over yet, but I would guess that their text is not what we find in the real Aramaic New Testament. but rather an altered version of its Text, and if so, then their translations will follow that altered text.

.
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#22
I have sent them a request for information as to what text they used for their translation. I don't see anything stated about it on their website. I'll post here any info they might give.
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#23
Looking forward to your reply.
Thank You.



Thirdwoe Wrote:I have sent them a request for information as to what text they used for their translation. I don't see anything stated about it on their website. I'll post here any info they might give.
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#24
Here is my questions and their responses.

To: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:helpdesk@gorgiaspress.com">helpdesk@gorgiaspress.com</a><!-- e -->

Q: Could you please tell me what text was used for the translation of "The Antioch Bible."

For instance, would it be the UBS version? Or was it from certain Manuscripts? And if so, which ones specifically. I couldn't find this information on the website.

A: Thank you for your inquiry about the Antioch Bible. The Syriac Bible published by UBS is drawn from the 1826 Lee edition, while ours is drawn from the 1898 Mosul edition. We prefer the Mosul version because Lee incorporates several readings that aren't seen elsewhere, while the Mosul text is supported in the earliest manuscripts.

In the introduction of each book and in some of the footnotes, the translator will list some of the major differences between the Syriac manuscripts (as well as between Syriac manuscripts and Hebrew/Greek/Latin ones) so that you can compare various readings. I can give you specific manuscript references, but they vary from book to book, so you will have to let me know an example which interests you.


Q: I do have a few verses I would like to ask you about, which I'm very curious about, so that, I might determine which text the Antioch Bible will most align with.

For that test, could you please tell me if these verses below are present in the Antioch Bible's text.

Luke 22:17, 18
John 7:53 - 8:1-11
Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34
Acts 28:29

A: The verses you mentioned are not found in the Peshitta until the 1500's. Different translators for the Antioch Bible Project have taken different approaches to dealing with them: the translator for the Gospels excises them entirely, and just leaves a footnote marking where they would have been (he explains his reasons, and the history behind the verses in the Syriac tradition, in the introduction). The translator for Acts leaves the verses in the main texts, but marks them with a heavy black bar above and below, as well as a footnote detailing when they entered the Peshitta.|

Q: And further, can you please tell me how these three verses below read in the Antioch Bible's text.

Acts 20:28
Hebrews 2:9
Hebrews 2:16

A: Unfortunately, Hebrews has not been published yet. However, I can give you Acts 20:28; it reads:

"Watch out, therefore, for yourselves and for the whole flock, in
which the Holy Spirit has raised you up to be overseers[1] so that you
might shepherd the church of God which he obtained with his blood."


Q: What manuscript was used for the Acts 20:28 reading? The date and place of origin of the manuscript as well if you know. I also wanted to ask you if there might by a digital edition (PDF or APP) of The Antioch Bible available for download.

A: I'm not sure offhand. I do know that it is based on several early (pre-10th c.) manuscripts, but beyond that I couldn't say.

Would you be interested in a subscription to the Antioch Bible? It sounds like you have some ideas you want to dig deeper into, and being able to look at the scholarship directly is the best way to do that. If you haven't seen it already, we have information about subscriptions here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/t-antiochbible.aspx">http://gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/t-antiochbible.aspx</a><!-- m -->


Q: As for the subscription, I wouldn't be able to convince my wife to go into deep debt on our credit card for 30 volumes at 75.00 a piece, which comes to $2,250.00, not including the shipping and taxes for the volumes. Sadly this puts The Antioch Bible out of reach for me, and the vast majority of those who might be interested in having a copy.

And so, I am wondering if there is now or perhaps a planned digital edition of The Antioch Bible in the works, such as in a PDF, Ebook, or Nook form, or maybe an APP for IPhone or Android, or perhaps a software program for the computer, or as an add on to another software platform, such as Logos; anything that might make it affordable to have a copy.

Also, if you could provide any information on the Mosul edition, or a link to such information, I would appreciate it, as I am not acquainted too much with it.

A: I totally understand. If we could price it lower, we would (believe it or not, there is a logic behind our prices, and we don't actually make that much money from the sale).

We did send some of the volumes to Logos, but they cost about the same (see parentheses above).

Your best bet might be to buy individual volumes that you're interested in. If you're curious about Acts, for instance, you could just buy Acts. It would be $150 instead of $75 (plus shipping), but it would save you a lot of money versus the whole set.

As for information about the Mosul edition, let me check with my boss and see if there is a good link where I could direct you. And if there's anything else I can do, please let me know.

Best wishes,
Jeff

Jeffrey Haines
Marketing and Editorial Assistant
Gorgias Press
954 River Road
Piscataway, NJ 08854
Tel +1 732-885-8900
Fax +1 732-885-8908
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#25
Useful information, thank you. I agree the cost is a barrier. I saw volumes 1-10 for sale on Logos for around 500 dollars once. I would like to know how many volumes have completed at this time. Does anyone know? Also wondering what has become of the Leiden Peshitta Institute and their work on Old Testament books. It seems their site is down. Looking forward to the completion of the Antioch Bible though. Maybe the price will come down when it is a complete set.
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