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Philoxian vs harklean Revelation
#16
Shlama Stephen,

I'll comment on two things. I paraphrase your thoughts.

"The books were not handed to the CoE until the middle ages."

Well, it has been said that the CoE was founded by Tawma (Thomas) and he had 22 books when he left to Babylon. The other 5 books could be written and received by the Asian assemblies later?

"The used Aramaic in the 5 books (Crawford) is beautifull because there were skilled Aramaic writers who could translate the Greek original 'as if' it were very authentic."

If that's the case, the whole Peshitta is a probably a fake too. It's poetic, its grammatically OK. The Greek is not (always) because of some skilled Greek/Aramaic translators.
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#17
Hello Stephen,
I had a question about Harklean Version. But I will ask that later.

One of the interesting points about Revelation is Revelation 17:10 (Lamsa Translation) - "And there are seven kings, of whom five have
fallen and one "is" and the other has not yet come; and when he comes he shall continue only for a short time." And in Crawford Revelation, we see Yukhanan Shlikha was banished to Patmos by Nero. So Nero was ruling Roman Empire when Yukhanan Shlikha was at Patmos. We read that seventh has not yet come. And When he comes he shall continue only for a short time. Seventh was Galba. he only ruled Roman Empire for 6 to 7 months.

Bauscher points out that Nero was the sixth "Caesar." Julius "Caesar" was the first "Caesar." But after that, Augustus Caesar (First Emperor of Roman Empire and Second Caesar), Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero. As you know, its nrwn "qsr" in Aramaic. And the value of nrwn qsr is 666.

Revelation 17:11 (Lamsa) - "And the wild beast that was, and no longer is, even he is the eighth and is one of the seven "destined" to be
destroyed." After Galba, Otho became Eighth Caesar of Rome. Otho only ruled upto 3 months. After that, he "killed himself."

Other than Apollonius of Tyana, Roman naturalist Pliny (23/24 -79 AD) described Nero as "the destroyer of the human race? and ?the poison of the world.? Roman historian Tacitus (56-117 A.D.) spoke of Nero?s ?cruel nature? that ?put to death so many innocent men.?

What do you think about it, Stephen?
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#18
distazo Wrote:Shlama Stephen,

I'll comment on two things. I paraphrase your thoughts.

"The books were not handed to the CoE until the middle ages."

Well, it has been said that the CoE was founded by Tawma (Thomas) and he had 22 books when he left to Babylon. The other 5 books could be written and received by the Asian assemblies later?

"The used Aramaic in the 5 books (Crawford) is beautifull because there were skilled Aramaic writers who could translate the Greek original 'as if' it were very authentic."

If that's the case, the whole Peshitta is a probably a fake too. It's poetic, its grammatically OK. The Greek is not (always) because of some skilled Greek/Aramaic translators.

Shlama:
Just as there were over 500 witnesses who saw the risen Christ during the time after his resurrection and His ascension so there were many Assyrian witnesses of high standing who have testified to the original Aramaic 22 book Peshitta. So it is today because these descendents of those very witnesses are alive in this generation.

Your lack of understanding of Aramaic and Hebrew testify against you. If you can only read Greek and English you have nothing to say about Semitic languages. Western Christianity is woefully amiss in their knowledge about the two sister Semitic languages of Hebrew and Aramaic, partly due to laziness and partly due to the willingness to follow those who are blind.

I suggest that you stick around and begin to ask credible questions about Aramaic and Hebrew and stop criticizing the things that you have no knowledge of. Many of us have started the very same way as you and are happy that we persevered. It's foolish to say that the 22 book Aramaic Peshitta is fake.

Jesus didn'tspeak Greek so by your reckoning all we have is a translation of his very words. In fact it is just this attitude that has led to the confusion in the Western churches.

Shlama,
Stephen Silver
Dukhrana Biblical Research
<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- w -->
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#19
distazo Wrote:Shlama Stephen,

I'll comment on two things. I paraphrase your thoughts.

"The books were not handed to the CoE until the middle ages."

Well, it has been said that the CoE was founded by Tawma (Thomas) and he had 22 books when he left to Babylon. The other 5 books could be written and received by the Asian assemblies later?

"The used Aramaic in the 5 books (Crawford) is beautifull because there were skilled Aramaic writers who could translate the Greek original 'as if' it were very authentic."

If that's the case, the whole Peshitta is a probably a fake too. It's poetic, its grammatically OK. The Greek is not (always) because of some skilled Greek/Aramaic translators.

Shlama:
Let's be clear. The only books that that Peter passed on to Mar Thoma in Babylon were the 22 book Eastern Aramaic Peshitta. The W-5 didn't appear to the ACoE till the Middle Ages. Sorry if I did not make that clear enough for you.

I have a copy of the Crawford manuscript in its entirety on microfilm. Yes it is beautiful but it is Western. Hebrews 2:9 shws the difference between Eastern and Western reading. The Eastern Peshitta reads "hu gir s'tar min Alaha" (for he apart from Alaha) while the Western reading and hence the Crawford Codex reads "hu gir b'taybutha Alaha" (for he by the grace of Alaha). Again, the Crawford is beautiful along with the Passion story and the W-5 is the Western reading called "peshitto".

Shlama,
Stephen Silver
Dukhrana Biblical Research
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->
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#20
Hello Stephen,
I think you accidentally skipped what I was writing. So I am writing this again.

One of the interesting points about Revelation is Revelation 17:10 (Lamsa Translation) - "And there are seven kings, of whom five have
fallen and one "is" and the other has not yet come; and when he comes he shall continue only for a short time." And in Crawford Revelation, we see Yukhanan Shlikha was banished to Patmos by Nero. So Nero was ruling Roman Empire when Yukhanan Shlikha was at Patmos. We read that seventh has not yet come. And When he comes he shall continue only for a short time. Seventh was Galba. he only ruled Roman Empire for 6 to 7 months.

Bauscher points out that Nero was the sixth "Caesar." Julius "Caesar" was the first "Caesar." But after that, Augustus Caesar (First Emperor of Roman Empire and Second Caesar), Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero. As you know, its nrwn "qsr" in Aramaic. And the value of nrwn qsr is 666.

Revelation 17:11 (Lamsa) - "And the wild beast that was, and no longer is, even he is the eighth and is one of the seven "destined" to be
destroyed." After Galba, Otho became Eighth Caesar of Rome. Otho only ruled upto 3 months. After that, he "killed himself."

Other than Apollonius of Tyana, Roman naturalist Pliny (23/24 -79 AD) described Nero as "the destroyer of the human race? and ?the poison of the world.? Roman historian Tacitus (56-117 A.D.) spoke of Nero?s ?cruel nature? that ?put to death so many innocent men.?

What do you think about it, Stephen?
Reply
#21
konway87 Wrote:Hello Stephen,
I think you accidentally skipped what I was writing. So I am writing this again.

One of the interesting points about Revelation is Revelation 17:10 (Lamsa Translation) - "And there are seven kings, of whom five have
fallen and one "is" and the other has not yet come; and when he comes he shall continue only for a short time." And in Crawford Revelation, we see Yukhanan Shlikha was banished to Patmos by Nero. So Nero was ruling Roman Empire when Yukhanan Shlikha was at Patmos. We read that seventh has not yet come. And When he comes he shall continue only for a short time. Seventh was Galba. he only ruled Roman Empire for 6 to 7 months.

Bauscher points out that Nero was the sixth "Caesar." Julius "Caesar" was the first "Caesar." But after that, Augustus Caesar (First Emperor of Roman Empire and Second Caesar), Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero. As you know, its nrwn "qsr" in Aramaic. And the value of nrwn qsr is 666.

Revelation 17:11 (Lamsa) - "And the wild beast that was, and no longer is, even he is the eighth and is one of the seven "destined" to be
destroyed." After Galba, Otho became Eighth Caesar of Rome. Otho only ruled upto 3 months. After that, he "killed himself."

Other than Apollonius of Tyana, Roman naturalist Pliny (23/24 -79 AD) described Nero as "the destroyer of the human race? and ?the poison of the world.? Roman historian Tacitus (56-117 A.D.) spoke of Nero?s ?cruel nature? that ?put to death so many innocent men.?

What do you think about it, Stephen?

Shlama:
So also SOTER in the Hebrew letters Samech= 600, Mem= 60 and Vav "O"= 6 and this adds up to 666. I'm not into playing with numbers like our friend David Bauscher, nor am I interested in lengthy ELS's (Equidistant Letter Sequencing. Some time ago there was a lengthy discussion about David's Bible Codes and number theory. In my opinion he was proved wrong. I just haven't got the time or patience to go through all of that again.

Shlama,
Stephen Silver
Dukhrana Biblical Research
<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- w -->
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#22
Stephen, is there a written explication or essay showing the links of Revelation to the Hebrew scriptures?

Thanks..

Otto
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#23
Stephen Silver Wrote:Shlama:
Let's be clear. The only books that that Peter passed on to Mar Thoma in Babylon were the 22 book Eastern Aramaic Peshitta. The W-5 didn't appear to the ACoE till the Middle Ages. Sorry if I did not make that clear enough for you.

I have a copy of the Crawford manuscript in its entirety on microfilm. Yes it is beautiful but it is Western.

Stephen Silver

Stephen, thank you for making this certain.

However, I?m not like others in this thread, questioning preterism, futurism, or doctrine, but I?m saying:

Could it be that the crawford revelation is not translated from Greek? Could it belong to an authentic Jewish-Aramaic root?

Take for instance Revelation 20:5. This is the same as the Sinaiticus, however, the Crawford rev. is _not_ just a translation of the Sinaiticus.

Or is it?

Did somebody do a textual vers by verse comparison?
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#24
distazo Wrote:Did somebody do a textual vers by verse comparison?
i don't think anyone did that for any whole book of the peshitta in an exhaustive manner with more than just a handful of greek codexes / manuscripts. Quite sad actually. i am wondering sometimes how people can be so quick in choosing/changing the fundamental parts of their faith.
Jesus is the one true God of the Bible.
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#25
Shlama Khulkon:
If any one of you take some real time to search through past posts at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org">http://www.peshitta.org</a><!-- m --> you will find a wealth of comments and URL's that cover the subject of the Crawford Codex. No sense in reinventing the wheel. However, you must learn what a wheel looks like in the first place. Also, go to <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m --> and search the entire site and find some more information. Both Dukhrana and peshitta.org work closely together so nothing is hidden.

Shlama,
Stephen Silver,
Dukhrana Biblical Research,
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->
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