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Hate your father snd mother, Luke 14:26
#1
According to Luke 14:26 "He who comes to me and does not hate his father and his mother and his brothers and his sisters and his wife and his children and even himself is not able to be a disciple to me."

Jesus seems to be asking that we reject one or more of the 10 commandments to be his disciple.

My question is about the Aramaic word [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0ns[/font]

All the Greek translators and most Aramaic translators, including Paul, say it means "hate". However, Lamsa renders it "put aside". Lamsa's translation seems to be more in the context of letting nothing come ahead of discipleship. Are we really supposed to hate everyone including ourselves?

Are there other meanings for [font=Estrangelo (V1.1)]0ns[/font].?


Otto
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#2
It cannot possibly say that one must hate oneself. Why? Because there is a great command which says "Love your neighbor as yourself." And as far as I can tell, it's impossible to love yourself and hate yourself simultaneously.
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#3
This is common semetic (including Arabic) thought. The western definition of 'hate' is straight.
The semetic one is also one of 'ignore'/put aside.
So, I agree with Lamsa's translation.

Also Jacob 'hated' Lea. It just means that he put her on the second place.
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#4
I think it may mean "not favor" in the semitic context. For example. Jacob was said to "hate" or "not favor" his wife Lea, but preferred his wife Rachel.
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#5
Genesis 29:30 (Jacob) loved also Rachel more than Leah?.

Genesis 29:31 ?the Lord saw that Leah was hated??

Apparently "hated" meams "loved less " in this context.
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#6
The Hebrew word for "hate" is x'mS

Ser Deut 21:15 for contrast of "beloved" and "hated".

I need help from a Hebrew scholar!
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#7
ograabe Wrote:The Hebrew word for "hate" is x'mS

Ser Deut 21:15 for contrast of "beloved" and "hated".

I need help from a Hebrew scholar!


Shlama akhi,


although i won't claim to be a Hebrew "scholar," i do read the language just about every day, and the Hebrew word for "hate" that you will find almost across the board in Scripture is exactly the same as the Aramaic one: 'nS, pronounced SAWNEY, which does indeed have the clear meaning of "hate/hatred," but contextually, can also have the idea of one who is "preferred less," as the root appears to come from the pronunciation of SH'NA, which, although spelled exactly the same, in this instance means "to be different," and would thus be a fitting concept behind the feeling of hatred as opposed to love. it may not necessarily be an active feeling of disgust, but a sincere preference for one over another.

also, the word you've included in Hebrew is not one for "hate" at all in Hebrew. did you mean h'nS - SEEN'AH = "hate?"

thus, context must be relied-upon to determine the best meaning intended. i personally think "preferred less" would be much closer to what Yeshu'a intended in His words, as it fits the context more appropriately, and still allows for an upholding of honoring one's parents in the process.


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#8
Dear Jeremy,

Thanks for the clear information!

I don't read Hebrew, but I found x'mS as a word root used twice in Deuterinomy 21:15 that I thought was tranlslated "hate". Maybe you can check it out. What does it mean?

Otto
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#9
ograabe Wrote:Dear Jeremy,

Thanks for the clear information!

I don't read Hebrew, but I found x'mS as a word root used twice in Deuterinomy 21:15 that I thought was tranlslated "hate". Maybe you can check it out. What does it mean?

Otto

Shlama akhi,


no problem! <!-- sBig Grin --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/happy.gif" alt="Big Grin" title="Happy" /><!-- sBig Grin -->

as for the passage you refer to, the actual words as they appear in-text are:

h'wnS = S'NOO'AH = "hate"
and
h'wnShw = V'HAS'NOO'AH = "and the hated"
and
h'ynSl = LAS'NEE'AH = "to the hated" / "for the hated"

all are inflections of the original 'nS = SAWNEY, meaning "hate," and probably best rendered as "love less / prefer less," according to the context, although one could make an argument, i suppose, that "hate" is really what is intended.

edit: i should make it clear that the word you referenced is not a word itself, but the closest it would come in Hebrew would be "joy," SAMAKH, if it were a word, which obviously wouldn't fit in the context at all. i think your source was either misspelled, or else you mistook the combination of wn for a m, and the h for a x -- both of which are easily done, and are actually seen in some instances, using the Ashuri Dead Sea script, as explanations for variant readings in the Greek from the Peshitta.

hope that helps clear it up. <!-- sSmile --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- sSmile -->


Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy
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#10
Jeremy:

You are completely correct!

I misread the text.

I got it from J.H. Hertz, "Pentateuch & Haftorahs, 2nd Ed 1960.

Thanks fore your generous help!!

Sincerely, Otto
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