Alternative Rendering possible 1 John 2:22?

[distazo]

Hi All,

Can some Aramaic reader tell me if this is possible?

I ask this, because I find the conclusion too extreme to understand.

Somebody who denies the Messiah IS a false Messiah?

Somebody could deny Him, but that does not automatically imply that this one also thinks that he himself is a Messiah!

So, I guess this:

(for example a 'Modified Etheridge')
Who is a liar, if not he who denieth that Jeshu is the Meshiha and [say that] he is a false meshiha? He who denieth the Father, denieth also the Son;

Yes, there -are- people who deny that Jeshu is the Meshiha! They however, do not claim to BE the Messiah <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s -->

SO my Question is: Is the translation above possible?

[Stephen Silver]

Hi All,

Can some Aramaic reader tell me if this is possible?
I ask this, because I find the conclusion too extreme to understand.
Somebody who denies the Messiah IS a false Messiah?
Somebody could deny Him, but that does not automatically imply that this one also thinks that he himself is a Messiah!
So, I guess this:
(for example a 'Modified Etheridge')
Who is a liar, if not he who denieth that Jeshu is the Meshiha and [say that] he is a false meshiha? He who denieth the Father, denieth also the Son;
Yes, there -are- people who deny that Jeshu is the Meshiha! They however, do not claim to BE the Messiah <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile.gif" alt="" title="Smile" /><!-- s -->
SO my Question is: Is the translation above possible?

Shlama Akhi Distazo:
There are some keys to the context of this passage in I John 2:18-23. The term "mashikha d'gala" in I John 2:18 and 22 can mean "false anointed one". Also, of every believer it is written in I John 2:20

"And you have an anointing from the Holy, and you discern every man."

In Aramaic this is "mashikhutha.............waparashin." So, every believer is a holy anointed one whom discerns between good and evil. We are able to discern between the spirit of Mashikha and a false and lying spirit. In this context John has used the phrase "mashikha d'gala".

Its important to gather the context of any passage and cross reference it with other similar passages. In this case I would cross reference with I Corinthians 12:1-3.

1) And concerning spirituals, my brethren, I would have you know,
2) that ye have been pagans ; and have been, without distinction, led away after idols, in which there is no speech.
3)I therefore inform you, that there is no man, that speaketh by the Spirit of God, who saith that Jesus is accursed: neither can a man say that Jesus is the Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.

Shlama,
Stephen

[distazo]

Hi Stephen,

This is a great explanation and makes sense! Thank you!

So, a better translation would be to translate 'messiah' to 'anointed' (a false anointed)

[Stephen Silver]

Hi Stephen,

This is a great explanation and makes sense! Thank you!

So, a better translation would be to translate 'messiah' to 'anointed' (a false anointed)

Shlama Akhi:
One of the most important things to keep in mind when translating any passage of the scriptures is context. The Hebrew Scriptures give some examples which help us to understand the importance of balancing the passionate feelings that arise from reading the scriptures and our attempts to apply them appropriately. Such is the relationship between the believer and the Living Word of our gracious LORD Yeshua.
The context is formed in the paragraph containing the complete thought. Its really a simple concept. Unfortunately, many zealous but impulsive lovers of scripture take a phrase "and run with it".(II Samuel 18:19) When you read the entire 18th chapter of II Samuel, try to think of the translation of scripture as an important mission. Your presentation is only for the ears of the King. He himself will make the proclamation and your chief joy will be fulfilled because you have been sent as His messenger.

As for the word "mashiakha", we are used to this word being used to apply to Yeshua only, for he is our Messiah. We're not comfortable using this word to describe an inferior "one". However, the Apostle John felt it necessary to warn us of the depth of deception that is in the world. The Apostle (sent one) speaks to us universally, as to "little children", not wanting to alarm us but to gently warn us of the immediate danger. (Epistle of John 2:18) I hope that you will find this helpful, Akhi Distazo.

Shlama,
Stephen Silver
Dukhrana Biblical Research
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->

[distazo]

Dear Stephen,
Thank you for your encouragement.

I feel that I can succeed in this mission in which I have zeal but no blind zeal.
In the beginning, I was translating rather recklessly, now it's getting better.
The hardest thing is getting the Dutch grammatically and idiomatically correct. (Since I'm not a professional, and have no resources to hire them, however, my Dutch is pretty on par with good writing practices )

While my translation is not on paper, I get many enthusiastic reactions, especially from messianic Jews however, I have no specific Christian audience for my Bible translation.

One thing that helped me a lot, is meditating about verses that I find spurious and hard to understand, comparing lamsa, bauscher etc and looking up dukhrana.com this solves most questions.