Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
A Big Question for whoever has time
#1
Grace and Peace,
I am a Christian from Northern Kentucky in America. Ifirst heard about the Christ on August 31, 2005. I put faith in him on September 28, 2005. My name is tom. To explain a little more what I mean when I say faith I word it like this in my about me on facebook: I have CONFIDENCE before God that all I need to satisfy the stench of my sin and bring GLORY to God is the Sacrifice of Christ and the resultant gift of the Spirit, therefore I make it my aim to please HIM, who gave His Son for the sin of the world.
To get to the point, until last week, I had never heard of Aramaic Primacy, I have been to Bible School (where I met my wife) and I devoted about a year to learning NT Greek. My knowledge of Greek though only seemed to make the amaraic arguments stronger. I see no problem thinking that the NT was originally written in aramaic, the arguments were quite persuasive. I have yet to purchase an AENT, or consider my decision final.
The reason I am writing this is, I teach at a house gathering of believers here, it is vital to protect my flock. i am sure that you are very aware that false teaching is rampant in America. False teachers are everywhere. The keys we use to determine these false teachers have always been and will remain, the truth of the gospel. I know gospel is probably not the word you use around here, but I have a strong fondness for it. There is no way to become a brother in Christ without the gospel being accurately taught and heard. The gospel starts with God, the author of all life, the Holy One, so righteous, so pure, no son of Adam can know Him. The message of Jesus is so powerful, it is the power of God to salvation, to knowing, serving, and worshipping the living God! I am very interested in the Jewishness of the teaching here, being a gentile I don't hear much of it. I love the hearkening back to seeing Jesus, Peter, and Paul as Jewish men who lived Jewish lives. But I must say that most of the false teaching that occurs here is always rooted in making something more important than the gospel. Here many say that unless you are baptist you are not saved, unless you are king james only you are not saved, unless you are baptized you are not saved, unless you do devotions you are not saved, unless you don't watch tv you are not saved, etc. I hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law (doing things found in the commandment portion of Torah, since the Torah as a whole promotes a Faith Righteousness), but this justification is outworked by love. We display our justification by walking by the power of the Holy Spirit and trusting in God to make us righteous outwardly, the same way He made us righteous inwardly. We love our brothers first by living righteously and second by helping them to live righteously, as the people of God, we live and die together, the term individual relationship to God is not valid in light of the 'new man' the combination of Jew and Gentile into the people of God. I guess my question is, is the message of Jesus seen as prime, the crazy truth from God that Paul devoted his life to teach, is the use of aramaic the means to the goal of giving God glory through His Son, by His death and Resurrection, or is it the goal of the means, to promote a system where men must learn from men in differing opinions? I don't say any of this to be rude, If you are my brothers then I am obligated to you, I guess my question is: are you my brothers?

Thank you in the Name of Jesus the Christ, the Lord.
Reply
#2
ForHisRenown Wrote:Grace and Peace,
I am a Christian from Northern Kentucky in America. Ifirst heard about the Christ on August 31, 2005. I put faith in him on September 28, 2005. My name is tom. To explain a little more what I mean when I say faith I word it like this in my about me on facebook: I have CONFIDENCE before God that all I need to satisfy the stench of my sin and bring GLORY to God is the Sacrifice of Christ and the resultant gift of the Spirit, therefore I make it my aim to please HIM, who gave His Son for the sin of the world.
To get to the point, until last week, I had never heard of Aramaic Primacy, I have been to Bible School (where I met my wife) and I devoted about a year to learning NT Greek. My knowledge of Greek though only seemed to make the amaraic arguments stronger. I see no problem thinking that the NT was originally written in aramaic, the arguments were quite persuasive. I have yet to purchase an AENT, or consider my decision final.
The reason I am writing this is, I teach at a house gathering of believers here, it is vital to protect my flock. i am sure that you are very aware that false teaching is rampant in America. False teachers are everywhere. The keys we use to determine these false teachers have always been and will remain, the truth of the gospel. I know gospel is probably not the word you use around here, but I have a strong fondness for it. There is no way to become a brother in Christ without the gospel being accurately taught and heard. The gospel starts with God, the author of all life, the Holy One, so righteous, so pure, no son of Adam can know Him. The message of Jesus is so powerful, it is the power of God to salvation, to knowing, serving, and worshipping the living God! I am very interested in the Jewishness of the teaching here, being a gentile I don't hear much of it. I love the hearkening back to seeing Jesus, Peter, and Paul as Jewish men who lived Jewish lives. But I must say that most of the false teaching that occurs here is always rooted in making something more important than the gospel. Here many say that unless you are baptist you are not saved, unless you are king james only you are not saved, unless you are baptized you are not saved, unless you do devotions you are not saved, unless you don't watch tv you are not saved, etc. I hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law (doing things found in the commandment portion of Torah, since the Torah as a whole promotes a Faith Righteousness), but this justification is outworked by love. We display our justification by walking by the power of the Holy Spirit and trusting in God to make us righteous outwardly, the same way He made us righteous inwardly. We love our brothers first by living righteously and second by helping them to live righteously, as the people of God, we live and die together, the term individual relationship to God is not valid in light of the 'new man' the combination of Jew and Gentile into the people of God. I guess my question is, is the message of Jesus seen as prime, the crazy truth from God that Paul devoted his life to teach, is the use of aramaic the means to the goal of giving God glory through His Son, by His death and Resurrection, or is it the goal of the means, to promote a system where men must learn from men in differing opinions? I don't say any of this to be rude, If you are my brothers then I am obligated to you, I guess my question is: are you my brothers?

Thank you in the Name of Jesus the Christ, the Lord.

Hi Tom:
What a wonderful testimony you have given. I welcome you to the forum. The Gospel of our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ is paramount above all. Aramaic Primacy takes nothing away, nor does it add anything to the simple Gospel message of our Messiah. The Aramaic New Testament, called Peshitta (simple/straight) is the "autograph" of the very spoken words of our Saviour Yeshua Meshikha/Jesus Christ and those of the Apostles. There is a remarkable cohesiveness in the Aramaic Peshitta, from which the Greek New Testament was translated. Nevertheless, the Greek New Testament is an excellent independent witness which does not stray far from the source, the Aramaic original. Variations are discussed here on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.peshitta.org">http://www.peshitta.org</a><!-- m -->.
The forum is non-secular. There are many different faiths and non-faiths represented here. The interest in Aramaic Primacy crosses many cultures and creeds. However, you will find many Christian/Messianic/Nazarene brothers and sisters of like-precious-faith as yourself. Feel free to use any and all of the resources here and on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->.

Shlama,
Stephen Silver
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->
Reply
#3
Dear Tom,

The Gospel message has been spread worldwide through the Greek-based versions of the New Testament. Aramaic primacy primarily concerns textual details rather than theological issues. There is no specific perfect Greek version of the New Testament but a variety of somewhat different versions.

According to the Greek scholars about 40% of the verses are significantly difference among all the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in that there are two or more major differences among these verses (Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, THE TEXT OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, pages 28-30, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michican, 1989).

Some smaller deviations can lead to some interesting difference in meaning, as well. For example the addition of one sigma in Luke 2:14 changes the message of the Angels, and in some cases whole verses are missing such as Matthew 18:11 (compare NKV with NIV, for example).This hodgepodge of small variations is a nuisance that is solved by study of the Aramaic Peshitta along with the so-called Western five books. Essentially all of these differences are clearly caused by small translation differences from Aramaic into Greek. Simon the "leper" was really a "jar-maker". The Ethiopian "eunuch" was really a "believer", for example.

If you choose between the NKJV and the NIV (or some other "modern" English version) you are going to be choosing between two somewhat different Greek source texts. You will be better off chosing a modern literal translation of the Aramaic New Testament.

New literal translations of the Peshitta are available. I recommend Andrew Roth's Aramaic-English New Testament which you can find at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.aent.org/">http://www.aent.org/</a><!-- m -->

Sincerely,

Otto
Reply
#4
ForHisRenown Wrote:...The reason I am writing this is, I teach at a house gathering of believers here, it is vital to protect my flock. i am sure that you are very aware that false teaching is rampant in America. False teachers are everywhere. The keys we use to determine these false teachers have always been and will remain, the truth of the gospel.

For some Christians, the gospel is very simple. Jesus, the son of God died for the sins of the world so that everyone's sins can be forgiven, so that we might be cleased and have a relationship with God as a result of that.
At least, that's what I think most Christians would consider it to be. Other Christians feel free to correct me on that.
But then the gospel can be a broad word for some which includes all kinds of theology. That's where it gets complicated.

ForHisRenown Wrote:The message of Jesus is so powerful, it is the power of God to salvation, to knowing, serving, and worshipping the living God! I am very interested in the Jewishness of the teaching here, being a gentile I don't hear much of it. I love the hearkening back to seeing Jesus, Peter, and Paul as Jewish men who lived Jewish lives.

And that's another contentious topic as some scholars believed they kept Jewish Halacha, while others do not.
The best thing you can do is hold onto the basics, but on the side do your own research, hear all the arguments, then you can deside what is the most reasonable and solid understanding.

ForHisRenown Wrote:But I must say that most of the false teaching that occurs here is always rooted in making something more important than the gospel. Here many say that unless you are baptist you are not saved, unless you are king james only you are not saved, unless you are baptized you are not saved, unless you do devotions you are not saved, unless you don't watch tv you are not saved, etc.

This was a big issue in the early Church councils. Everyone wants to know who's going to heaven. To make categories for who's in and who's out. My personal conviction is to let God be the Judge. To do your utmost to follow him, and trust him that if you confess your sins and turn from them he will forgive you.

ForHisRenown Wrote:I guess my question is, is the message of Jesus seen as prime, the crazy truth from God that Paul devoted his life to teach, is the use of aramaic the means to the goal of giving God glory through His Son, by His death and Resurrection, or is it the goal of the means, to promote a system where men must learn from men in differing opinions? I don't say any of this to be rude, If you are my brothers then I am obligated to you, I guess my question is: are you my brothers?
Thank you in the Name of Jesus the Christ, the Lord.

Well I think some wouldn't call it crazy, but I think I know what you mean.

Anyway, one thing you might want to think about is communion and I don't mean partaking of the bread and wine. I mean the early Orthodox Churches were in communion with one another, until they believe that various Churches started to bring in new teachings (unbiblical, unauthentic ones)

The Assyrian Church of the East, as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), refused to call Mary, the mother of God, and as a result lost their communion with other Churches who held to that position. They did this because they were holding onto what they believe was the faith of the apostles. And this kind of Mary being the mother of God was not something that had been passed down to them.


The most profound answer, I believe is this. "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known". 1 Corinthians 13:12

When Mashiach comes to rule as king, all theological differences will be resolved and all the Believers will finally become unity and whole. That will truly be an awesome day, but until then we can't know everything perfectly, so that's where we're at.
Reply
#5
Bear with me in love, above it was written ' that no son of adam may know him' . But Jesus died to bring men back into relationship with himself. That's the glorious , wonderful truth, that God does want us to be his close friend even though he is God. "Who gave himself for us that he might recover us from all iniquity and purify for himself a new people who are zealous in good works' Titus 2-14
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)