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Who is Rev. David Bauscher?
#16
Amatsyah Wrote:Albeit, I am curious about 1 Cor. 14:31:

For you can all prophesy one by one, that each person may teach and everyone may be comforted.
For all of you can prophesy one by one, so that everyone may learn and everyone may be comforted.

Looked up the Aramaic word in question in my BibleWorks lexicon, here's the beef:

Peshitta Entry for 1Co 14:31
Lemma: @ly
Form: @lan
Dict No: 1053
Gloss: "may learn"
Root Pic: to throw, shoot
Morphology Tag: %vNi3ms+Sxxx
Part of Speech: Verb
Stem: Peal
Tense: Imperfect
Parsing: 3rd person,masculine,singular
Pronunciation (Western): yileph
Pronunciation (Eastern): yi-lep
References: cf H3384

Meanings:
(1) learn
(2) Pael: teach, train, instruct


You might want to check it against Strong's H3384
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#17
The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches traditionally believe that speaking in tongues was a gift reserved for the first century Christians. In the Acts of the Apostles, the Apostles weren't speaking random gibberish, but speaking actual human languages to share the Gospel, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Pentecostalism is a contemporary movement, lacking support in Christian tradition.

Speaking In Tongues: An Orthodox Perspective
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7112.asp">http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/artic ... le7112.asp</a><!-- m -->

If this is the best criticism one can have, then I know it's a good translation.
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#18
I personally DON'T feel that the gibberish that I've heard in most Pentecostal churches is what "speaking in tongues" is really about.

I believe that speaking in Tongues exist today, but I also believe that it's rare.

Bauscher WAS WRONG in his translation. Ryan, I Love you like a Brother, but I still feel that Dave screwed up BIG TIME in his "translation".

I think that "TONGUES" is one Aramaic word, and "languages" is another.

Bauscher "translated" like he BELIEVED. Big mistake.

If I can get my wife to type it for me, I'll post 1st. Cornth. from The Way International's Aramaic/English New Testament tonight, if not, tomorrow sometime.

Spyridon, stick around and LEARN from reading and asking questions here.........there are A LOT of different and differing voices here at Peshitta.org

Before you judge..........LEARN.

Shlama, Albion




Spyridon Wrote:The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches traditionally believe that speaking in tongues was a gift reserved for the first century Christians. In the Acts of the Apostles, the Apostles weren't speaking random gibberish, but speaking actual human languages to share the Gospel, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Pentecostalism is a contemporary movement, lacking support in Christian tradition.

Speaking In Tongues: An Orthodox Perspective
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7112.asp">http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/artic ... le7112.asp</a><!-- m -->

If this is the best criticism one can have, then I know it's a good translation.
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#19
Shlama Akhi Albion,

aramaic_albion Wrote:I think that "TONGUES" is one Aramaic word, and "languages" is another.

Actually, they are the same word - "Leshana" ("Lashon" in Hebrew). Literally means tongue (as in the muscle in your mouth), or language.

+Shamasha
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#20
IMO "speaking in tongues" is most likely referring actual human languages. What I don't agree with is that this gift of "multi-lingualism" was reserved for the 1st century exclusively. Why? Surely this gift was useful and utilized both in the 1st century, today and all the time in between, I don't think the Gospel could've gone very far if it wasn't and isn't.
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#21
Either way, Rev. Bauscher's translation has so far proved sound.
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#22
As we all know, there are many Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians, who believe that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the ability to speak in a Heavenly Language not known to mankind and you can find them in all the mainline Christian Protestant denominations, as well as in the Messianic Jewish congregations...

Of course there are those who reject certain gifts of the Holy Spirit and who say that God is not giving them today, but they are sadly mistaken.

What God is teaching us here through His Apostle in 1st Corinthians is that we are not to despise or reject the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, but that we should seek them and be wise in the operation of them and that we should not abuse them for our own advantage, but to understand that in the Church setting, the Gifts are given to edify the congregation as a whole and not just ourselves...

Now, the reason that the Mr. Bauscher's translation work is not correct, is quite simple. It is interpreted wrong.

Yes, you could linguistically translate it that way, but it would be completely non-sensical to do so and is most certainly done with a bias of ones held doctrinal belief. No one can honestly translate these passages and render it non-sensical, unless they had to protect a pet doctrine. In this case a false doctrine.


Let me show you why.

In Mr. Bauschers translation we read:

1st Corinthians 14:12 For whoever speaks in languages does not speak to men, but he is speaking to God, for no man understands what he speaks, but by The Spirit he speaks mysteries.

It is very clear from this verse, that it is a Heavenly/Spiritual Language that is being spoken of here and not a Natural/Mental Language. It says clearly that NO man can understand it and that it is by the Spirit they are speaking mysteries....If this were just refering to mere Human Languages, then how is it that 1: it is a Gift from God, and 2 that only God can understand it? Use your brain, it is a gift from God. <!-- sWink --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/wink1.gif" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /><!-- sWink -->

Again God teaches us....

14:13 And he who speaks in languages, let him pray to translate.

Pray to Translate? You have to learn a Language before you can translate a Language, or at least get a book to help you out. Are people really trying to tell us, that when someone comes into Church and starts speaking Spanish for instance, that all the those who don't know Spanish should pray to God so as to be able to translate what they just heard? Non-sense! That is not at all what is being addressed here. It is a Heavenly Language that is being spoken that needs a Spiritual interpretation!!!

Again God teaches us through His Apostle....

14:14 For if I should pray in languages, my spirit is praying, but my understanding is unfruitful. 14:15 What therefore shall I do? I shall pray with my spirit, and I shall pray also with my understanding. I shall sing with my spirit, and I shall sing also with my understanding.

The Spiritual Language is here differentiated from the Natural or Mental Language...This "Language" or Tongue is of a Spiritual nature that the Spirit is using and is not the same as our human Language...


Let those who have ears, hear what the Spirit is saying....
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#23
Thirdwoe, I've already stated the Orthodox Christian understanding of speaking in tongues. If you have other objections to this translation, please share them.
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#24
Also the use of Jehovah is completely wrong and was a bad choice of translation.

This is not making a translation of God's Name at all, but using a composite word in place of it. It may make certain people happy, but is an error in translation and should not have been used. It was invented in the middle ages.

Also, if you look at Mr. Bauscher's statements on what he believes his calling is as a translator and his belief in the text that he used to translate his English translation that it is infallible, you can see that there is something wrong there.

He clearly states, that the long codes he had found in the text he used in his code program and which he still prints in his Interlinear had a number of mistakes in it, and that when he corrected the text the long codes were not there and could only be there if the errors where in place in the text.

Now, Instead of admitting that those codes where not from God then, he says that God made it all happen that way so as to tell him that the codes were indeed real!

Mr. Bauscher seems to see himself as chosen by God to bring people the infallible text and reveal the hidden codes within it.

Also, The Greek Orthodox Church, as any other group of Christians are wrong, if and when, they reject or despise any of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. God has warned us all not to do this in The Holy Scriptures.

I do not say that one must have the Gift of Heavenly Tongues to be saved, but I do say that those who reject, despise, or oppose those who do and persecute them, are in the employ of the evil one even if ignorant of the fact. I warn against it and admonish everyone to be careful here.
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#25
Shlama akhi Thirdwoe,

You know, you said all of this below much better than I could.

Bauscher raved against those (like you and myself) who stood against his use of "the ghostword", Jehovah.

I find this word almost embarrassing........I mean an Aramaic to English translator should surely use Alaha, or Marya (MarYah), but NOT a made up word from the Middle Ages, to avoid using YHWH!!

Dave KNEW this, but I think because of his Baptist background, he used this outdated "ghostword", instead.

I think the same could be said about "tongue"........Dave knew this was the more correct word, but because of his religious background, he chose to use another word that sounds out of place, if you ask me.

As to his "codes", I always thought that his whole code deal was complete and utter BS.

He honestly believed that Alaha had given him this PERFECT and DIVINE text, and it was the Western text of the P'shittO!

I think that "deluded" is not too strong a word for this sort of thinking.

And like myself, Dave is a hothead, but unlike me, he wouldn't ever admit it.

All of these things rolled together make for a rather colorful person, but not the most stable stick of dynamite in the box. lol

Anyway, I thank you for pointing out all of this, I frankly hardly ever use Dave's versions, and would have never have seen any of this had you not pointed it out.

And thanks again to Christina for putting the versions together to give us a better look!

You did really GOOD Thirdwoe, and I'm very grateful for your scholarly efforts to point us toward the Truth!

Amen.

Shlama, Albion




Thirdwoe Wrote:Also the use of Jehovah is completely wrong and was a bad choice of translation.

This is not making a translation of God's Name at all, but using a composite word in place of it. It may make certain people happy, but is an error in translation and should not have been used. It was invented in the middle ages.

Also, if you look at Mr. Bauscher's statements on what he believes his calling is as a translator and his belief in the text that he used to translate his English translation that it is infallible, you can see that there is something wrong there.

He clearly states, that the long codes he had found in the text he used in his code program and which he still prints in his Interlinear had a number of mistakes in it, and that when he corrected the text the long codes were not there and could only be there if the errors where in place in the text.

Now, Instead of admitting that those codes where not from God then, he says that God made it all happen that way so as to tell him that the codes were indeed real!

Mr. Bauscher seems to see himself as chosen by God to bring people the infallible text and reveal the hidden codes within it.

Also, The Greek Orthodox Church, as any other group of Christians are wrong, if and when, they reject or despise any of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. God has warned us all not to do this in The Holy Scriptures.

I do not say that one must have the Gift of Heavenly Tongues to be saved, but I do say that those who reject, despise, or oppose those who do and persecute them, are in the employ of the evil one even if ignorant of the fact. I warn against it and admonish everyone to be careful here.
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#26
Are you saying it's based on the Western Peshitto rather than the Peshitta?
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#27
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Why don't you do a search here at Peshitta.org, for YOURSELF, instead of asking anymore questions.

You obviously disagree with most of our answers.

Look at the SEARCH BAR in the upper right hand of your screen.

Dave's "translation" has been discussed exhaustively in the past...............take a look for yourself.

It's ALL THERE....................

Shlama, Albion



Spyridon Wrote:Are you saying it's based on the Western Peshitto rather than the Peshitta?
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#28
I simply disagreed with you regarding speaking in tongues, in the very way that the majority of the world's Christians would. When it comes to the accuracy of a translation, I'm thankful for any help you are able to provide.
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#29
Quote:As we all know, there are many Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians, who believe that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the ability to speak in a Heavenly Language not known to mankind and you can find them in all the mainline Christian Protestant denominations, as well as in the Messianic Jewish congregations...

Shlama Akhi:
The only place in scripture that gives any clue that lashana is also a heavenly language is in I Corinthians 13:1. Here the phrase tongues of angels is interpreted to mean heavenly language. However, the word for angel is the same for messenger in it's generic form malakha. So the phrase could just as well be languages of messengers/diplomats. There is no solid evidence that speaking in tongues is referring to anything but known languages.
Given church history, is it credible that this latent gift of the Holy Spirit would not be known till the early 20th Century at the Azuza Street revival meetings? I spent three decades of my Christian life "speaking in tongues" and only came to a realization of the falsehood when I began to read the Peshitta New Testament. For the most part it's a harmless sylablic exercise of prayer but to follow the doctrine of tongues to the extent that the Pentecostal and charismatic churches have, leads to confusion. Been there, done that and got the T-shirt!!

Shlama,
Stephen
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dukhrana.com">http://www.dukhrana.com</a><!-- m -->
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#30
Regarding 1 Cor. 14:31

Bauscher: For you can all prophesy one by one, that each person may teach and everyone may be comforted.

Mageira: For all of you can prophesy one by one, so that everyone may learn and everyone may be comforted.

As to this verse???

It is also held by those who say that God no longer gives the Spiritual Gifts listed in 1 Corinthians, that the term Prophesy or Prophesied is just saying that someone is teaching, as in giving a sermon or such. That is false.

To prophesy, is to speak a direct word, or words from the Holy Spirit, as it is given to the individual for the exhortation, edification, warning???etc, to another or group of people, to who God has instructed the person to deliver it.

For instance Agabus Prophesied to the Apostle Paul regarding how he would be treated in Jerusalem, he wasent preaching a sermon or teaching at a Bible study.
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