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+--- Thread: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? (/showthread.php?tid=3572)
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 01-28-2020
When Luke 13:16 was originally written, did it have:
satan? Slanderer/Accuser?
Both the Peshitta and the by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron have “Slanderer/Accuser.”
Diatessaron, Section XVII, Aramaic to Arabic to German, in
Tatians Diatessaron aus dem Arabischen (1926)
https://archive.org/details/MN41439ucmf_3/page/n260
[~46] Diese, welche (ist) eine Tochter Abrahams und welche gebunden hatte derVerleumder (Satan) seit achtzehn Jahren, war nicht nötig, zu lösen von dieser Fessel am Tage des Sabbat?
Google translate:
This, which (is) a daughter of Abraham and which had been bound by the slanderer (Satan) for eighteen years, was not necessary to be released from this bondage on the day of the Sabbath?
Luke 13:16
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Luke+13:16&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) But this daughter of Abraham, whom, behold, the Accuser [Akelkartsa.] hath bound eighteen years, is it not lawful to loose from this binding on the day of shabath?
(Murdock) And this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom the Calumniator hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, ought she not to be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Luke 13:16 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+13:16&version=NKJV
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/13-16.htm
So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan [Greek: Satanas/ Σατανᾶς] has bound—think of it—for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?”
==============================================.
When Jesus spoke what became John 8:44, did he say:
devil? Slanderer/Accuser?
When John 8:44 was originally written, did it have:
devil? Slanderer/Accuser?
The Peshitta and (it strongly appears to me) the by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron have “Slanderer/Accuser.”
John 8:44
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+8:44&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/8-44.htm
(Etheridge) You are from your father the accuser, and the desires of your father you are willing to do. He from the beginning was the killer of men, and in the truth he stood not; therefore the truth is not in him. And when he speaketh a lie, of his own he speaketh, because of falsity he is also the father.
(Murdock) Ye are of your father, the calumniator ; and the lust of your father ye are disposed to do. He was from the beginning a manslayer, and abode not in the truth; for the truth is not in him, and when he speaketh a lie he speaketh from himself, for he is a liar, and the father of it.
(KJV) Ye are of your father the devil [Greek: diabolou/ διαβόλου/ devil], and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Diatessaron, Section XXXV, Aramaic to Arabic to German, in
Tatians Diatessaron aus dem Arabischen (1926)
https://archive.org/details/MN41439ucmf_3/page/n260
[~55] Ihr seid von dem Vater, dem Teufel (Verleumder). Und die Begierde eures Vaters wollt ihr tun, welcher von Anfang an ein Mörder der Menschen ist. Und in der Wahrheit steht er nicht, denn die Wahrheit ist nicht in ihm. Und wenn er Lüge redet, so redet er aus dem, (was) bei ihm (ist). Denn er ist ein Lügner und ein Vater der Lüge.
Google translate:
[~ 55] You are from the father, the devil (slanderer). And you want to do the desire of your father, who has been a murderer of the people from the beginning. And he is not in the truth, because the truth is not in him. And when he speaks a lie, he speaks out of what is with him. Because he is a liar and a father of lies.
It seems to me that the translator of the Diatessaron from Aramaic into Arabic rendered Akelqartza/Slanderer as Satan, and noted using parentheses the presence of Slanderer. (Also, compare what’s seen in the Aramaic to Arabic to German.) Parentheses present in the Arabic transcription in this book became " | " in the French rendition of the Arabic:
Diatessaron, Aramaic to Arabic to French, in
Diatessaron De Tatien by Tatian; A. S. Marmardji (1935), on 503 of PDF file
https://archive.org/details/diatessarondetat0000tati
Parce quenous ne pouvez pas entendre ma parole. (44) Vous étes du pere |détracteur| Satan. Et la passion de votre pere vous voulez faire.
Google translate:
Because we can't hear my word. (44) You are father |detractor| Satan. And your father's passion you want to do.
////////////////////////////
I agree that satana means 'Adversary.' However, Akelqartza means 'Slanderer/Accuser.' Both words refer to the same evil entity.
Matthew 4 (based on Younan; Aramaic to English)
1. Then Yeshua was taken by the Rukha d'Qudsha [Spirit of Holiness] to the desert to be tempted by Akelqartza. 2. And he fasted forty days and forty nights, and after which he hungered. 3. And he that was tempting approached and said to him, "If you (are) the Son of Allaha, say to these rocks, 'Become bread.'" 4. And he answered and said,
"(It) is written that,
'barnasha does not live by bread alone,
but by all the words that proceed from the mouth of Allaha.'"
[I made PY's "proceeds" into "proceed."]
5. Then Akelqartza took him to the holy medintha [city] and raised him upon the edge of the temple 6. and said to him, "If you (are) the Son of Allaha, cast yourself down, for it is written that,
'His angels He commands concerning you,
and upon their hands they will bear you up,
that your foot should not strike upon a rock.'"
7. Yeshua said to him,
"Again, it is written that,
'you shall not test MrYa Allahak [Master YHWH your Allaha].'"
8. Again Akelqartza took him to a tuora [mountain] that (was) very high and showed him all the kingdoms of the ailma [world] and shubkhen [their glory], 9. and said to him, "All these I (will) give to you if you will fall (and) thesagud [worship] me." 10. Then Yeshua said to him,
"Leave Satana, for it is written that,
'thesagud [you shall worship] MrYa Allahak,
and Him alone thepalukh [you shall serve].'"
11. Then Akelqartza left him and behold, malaka [messengers, here, angelic messengers] approached and were ministering to him.
by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron, Aramaic to Arabic to English
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/te...saron.html
SECTION IV. .... 42. And Jesus returned from the Jordan, filled with the Holy Spirit. And immediately the Spirit took him out into the wilderness, to be tried of the devil;^3 and he was with the beasts. And he fasted forty days and forty nights. And he ate nothing in those days, and at the end of them he hungered. And the tempter came and said unto him, If thou art the Son of God, speak, and these stones shall become bread. He answered and said,
It is written,
Not by bread alone shall man live,
but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Then the devil^3 brought him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou art the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written,
He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:
And they shall take thee on their arms,
So that thy foot shall not stumble against a stone.
49 Jesus said unto him,
And it is written also,
Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
And the devil^5 took him up to a high mountain, and shewed him all the kingdoms of the earth, and their glory, in the least time; and the devil^5 said unto him, To thee will I give all this dominion, and its glory, which is delivered to me that I may give it to whomsoever I will. If then thou wilt worship before me, all of it shall be thine.
SECTION V. Jesus answered and said unto him,
Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written,
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God,
and him alone shalt thou serve.
And when the devil^5 had completed all his temptations, he departed from him for a season. And behold, the angels drew near and ministered unto him.
3: Lit. _calumniator_.
5: Lit. _backbiter_, a different word from that used above in ...4, 43, 47.
Matthew 4 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/ylt/matthew/4.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/4-1.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/4-5.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/4-8.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/4-10.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/4-11.htm
1 Then Jesus was led up to the wilderness by the Spirit, to be tempted by the Devil [Greek: diabolou/ διαβόλου], 2 and having fasted forty days and forty nights, afterwards he did hunger. 3 And the Tempter having come to him said, ‘If Son thou art of God — speak that these stones may become loaves.’ 4 But he answering said,
‘It hath been written,
Not upon bread alone doth man live,
but upon every word coming forth from the mouth of God.’
5 Then doth the Devil [Greek: diabolos/ διάβολος] take him to the [holy] city, and doth set him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and saith to him, ‘If Son thou art of God — cast thyself down, for it hath been written, that,
His messengers He shall charge concerning thee,
and on hands they shall bear thee up,
that thou mayest not dash on a stone thy foot.’
7 Jesus said to him again,
‘It hath been written,
Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.’
8 Again doth the Devil [Greek: diabolos/ διάβολος] take him to a very high mount, and doth shew to him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them, 9 and saith to him, ‘All these to thee I will give, if falling down thou mayest bow to me.’ 10 Then saith Jesus to him,
‘Go — Adversary [Greek: Satana/ Σατανᾶ],
for it hath been written,
The Lord thy God thou shalt bow to,
and Him only thou shalt serve.’
11 Then doth the Devil [Greek: diabolos/ διάβολος] leave him, and lo, messengers came and were ministering to him.
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 01-29-2020
When Jesus spoke what became Mt 25:41, did he say:
devil? Slanderer/Accuser?
When Mt 25:41 was originally written, did it have:
devil? Slanderer/Accuser?
Both the Peshitta and the by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron have “Slanderer/Accuser.”
Matthew 25:41
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Matthew+25:41&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/25-41.htm
(Etheridge) Then shall he say also unto them on his left hand, Go from me, accursed, into the fire of eternity, which was prepared for the accuser and for his angels.
(Murdock) Then will he say also to them on his left hand: Go from me, ye accursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the Calumniator and his angels,
(KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil [Greek: diabolō/διαβόλῳ] and his angels:
Diatessaron, Aramaic to Arabic to French, in
Diatessaron De Tatien by Tatian; A. S. Marmardji (1935), page 579 of PDF file
https://archive.org/details/diatessarondetat0000tati
DIATESSARON. XLIII. 50-58
….
Alors il dira à ceux (qui) seront à sa gauche aussi :
Allez loin de moi, maudits, au feu de l'éternité, (celui) qui est réparé pour le calomniateur (satan) et pour ses troupes.
Google translate:
Then he will say to those (who) will be to his left too:
Go away from me, damned, in the fire of eternity, (he) who is repaired for the slanderer (satan) and for his troops.
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 01-29-2020
Argument using the Arabic Diatessaron for the old age of the Peshitta
Tatian died in A.D. 175. Reasoning and textual evidence suggest that Tatian started with the 4 Gospels in the Aramaic Peshitta, and interwove Gospel passages into one consolidated harmonized narrative to get his _Diatesseron_, in the process quoting 3/4ths of the 4 Gospels. We presently lack Tatian's Diatessaron in its original Aramaic, but do have it in translation in Arabic, a daughter language of Aramaic. A huge number of parallels exist between the Peshitta's 4 Gospels and what's in the 'Arabic Diatessaron.' Reasons Paul Younan,
"It makes perfect sense that a harmony of the Gospels would necessarily require that the distinct 4 Gospels actually existed prior to the harmony. This is common sense. It makes ever more sense that an _Aramaic_ harmony of the Gospels, which Tatian's Diatesseron was, was woven together from the 4 distinct _Aramaic_ Gospels. .... Since the Arabic translation by Ibn-at-Tayyib is the only one we know for sure was made directly from the Aramaic, and since it reads like the Peshitta..., and since we know that a harmony necessitates a base of 4 distinct Gospels from which it must be drawn - I submit that Tatian's Aramaic Diatesseron was a harmony of the distinct Gospels in Aramaic we currently find today in the canon of scripture we know as the Peshitta.
_Occam's Razor_ is a logical principle which states that one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything. In other words, the simplest explanation is usually the best. The simplest explanation is that Tatian created a harmony of the Peshitta gospels. This harmony existed in Persia until at least the 11th century, when it was translated into Arabic. ....if we are to believe the textual evidence in the Arabic translation... the Peshitta Gospels were the base of the Diatesseron which history attributes to Tatian. And this places the Peshitta Gospels at or before 175 A.D."
The Arabic Diatessaron has been translated into English, Latin, French, and German.
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 01-30-2020
When John 12:32 was originally written, do you think it said:
“will draw all to myself”?
“will draw all men to myself”?
John 12:32, interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/12-32.htm
And I if I am lifted up from the earth pantas/πάντας/all helkysō/ἑλκύσω/will-draw to Myself
John 12:32
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+12:32&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) And I, when I have been lifted up from the earth, will draw all men [Aramaic: k-l a-n-sh: all + man, mankind]
unto me.
(Murdock) And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me.
John 12:32 (NKJV), italics indicating a word supplied by the translator
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+12:31-33&version=NKJV
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all _peoples_ to Myself.”
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 01-31-2020
When Mark 16:18 was originally written, do you think it literally read:
"poison of death"?
"deadly thing"?
Both the Aramaic Peshitta and the by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron literally read "poison of death."
Mark 16:18
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Mark+16:18&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) and serpents they shalt take up; and if the poison [Aramaic: s-m-a: poison] of death [Aramaic: d'm-u-th-a: of death] they drink, it shall not hurt them; and their hands shall they lay upon the sick, and they shall be healed.
(Lamsa) And they will pick up snakes; and if they should drink any poison of death, it will not harm them; and they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be healed.
(KJV) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Diatessaron, Section LV, Aramaic to Arabic to German, in
Tatians Diatessaron aus dem Arabischen (1926)
https://archive.org/details/MN41439ucmf_3/page/n260
[~9-10] 17 Und die Erkennungszeichen, welche begleiten werden die Glaubenden an mich, sind diese: Sie werden Teufel austreiben in meinem Namen; und sie werden reden in neuen Zungen. Und sie werden Schlangen anfassen, und wenn sie trinken ein Gift des Todes, wird es ihnen nichts schaden, und sie werden auflegen ihre Hände auf Kranke, und sie werden genesen.
Google translate:
17 And the signs that will accompany the believers in me are these: They will cast out devils in my name; and they will speak in new tongues. And they will touch snakes, and if they drink a poison of death it will do them no harm, and they will lay their hands on the sick and they will recover.
Mark 16:18 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/16-18.htm
https://biblehub.com/mark/16-18.htm
serpents they shall take up; and if any deadly thing [Greek: thanasimon/θανάσιμόν/deadly ti/τι/anything] they may drink, it shall not hurt them; on the ailing they shall lay hands, and they shall be well.'
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-01-2020
Tatian did his Diatessaron by A.D. 175. Do you agree that the Arabic Diatessaron:
was translated from Aramaic?
was translated from the Aramaic text that's in the Aramaic Peshitta?
Diatessaron De Tatien by Tatian; A. S. Marmardji (1935), which has the Diatessaron: Aramaic to Arabic to French
https://archive.org/details/diatessarondetat0000tati
Chapitre troisieme
Original syriaque du Diatessaron arabe.
…COMPARAISON ENTRE LE DIATESSARON ET LES ANCIENNES VERSIONS SYRIAQUES.
Il est evident que ce _Diatessaron_ arabe est traduit du syriaque. Mais de quel texte syriaque? A la suite de l’examen attentif et pousse jusqu'aux minimes details, par l’etude des variantes des trois versions syriaques deja mentionnees, nous sommes force de conclure que cette harmonie des Evangiles a pour base non pas le texte syriaque ancien ou celui de Tatien-- comme d’aucuns l’avaient soutenu-- mais purement et simplement celui de la Psitta, substitue au premier. Nous allons le montrer, en detail, par comparison.
Notre assertion peut etre consideree comme certaine dans 80% des cas oil le texte arabe est la reproduction litterale du syriaque de la Psitta. Comme exemples a l’appui de ce que nous avancons, nous signalons les passages qui ne sont pas synoptiques, mais propres a un seul Evangeliste, tels que _l'entretien avec la samaritaine, le discours du Sauveur a la Cene, le miracle de l’aveugle-ne, la parabole de l’enfant prodigue, le miracle de Cana, l’apparition sur le lac de Tiberiade, etc. etc.
Voici, pour plus de demonstration, les textes memes du _Diatessaron_ et de la Psitta, touchant cette apparition. Les quelques variantes sont dues ou a la traduction ou a des fautes du traducteur. Dans les V.V. 11 et 12 il y a _propre au Diatessaron_. En regard de ces deux textes, nous mettons ceux de la Sinaitique et de la Curetonienne. On verra combine est grande l’harmonie, la similitude, souvent l’identite, d’une part, entre les deux derniers et, d’autre part, entre les deux premiers.
Le 20% qui reste pourrait se reduire tres facilement, si l’on tient compte des circonstances attenuantes qui proviennent du fait de l’harmonie ou de la traduction.
a) Et d’abord ne doivent etre regardees comme variantes toutes les fautes de traduction que nous y avons signalees.
b) Tous les mots ou expressions que nous avons comptes commepropres an Diatessaron.
c) En raison de la traduction, certaines tournures sont differemment rendues en arabe.
d) Pour le besoin de l’harmonie, le texte arabe change souvent le pluriel en singulier et vice versa ; surtout daus les recits-- comme ceu des miracles-- relates dans les synoptiques.
e) Pour la meme raison, il remet un nom la ou il est remplace par un pronom ; ou bien, il ajoute une conjonctiou la ou il n'y en a pas ; ou bien encore, il en retranche la ou il y en a.
f) Il rend le pluriel feminin, employe en syriaque pour le neutre, par le masculin singulier.
g) Il omet souvent la traduction de l'expression <... et il arriva que> se contentant de la conjonction <... lorsque>.
h) Presque constamment, il rend <...> par <... Fils des homines> au lieu de <... Fils de I'homme>.
i) Souvent <... ou ...> y sont traduits par la conjonction <... et>.
Voici certains cas ou le _Diatessaron_ change le texte evangelique pour le besoin de l'harmonie. Pour faire ressortir davantage la difference, nous mettons en regard du texte arabe le syriaque de la Psitta.
google translate, with a few minor punctuation changes:
Chapter three
Original Syriac from the Arab Diatessaron.
… COMPARISON BETWEEN THE DIATESSARON AND THE OLD SYRIA VERSIONS.
It is obvious that this Arabic _Diatessaron_ is translated from Syriac. But what Syriac text? Following careful examination and pushing down to the smallest details, by studying the variants of the three Syriac versions already mentioned, we are forced to conclude that this harmony of the Gospels is not based on the ancient Syriac text or that of Tatian-- as some had argued-- but purely and simply that of Psitta, substituted for the first. We will show it, in detail, by comparison.
Our assertion can be considered certain in 80% of cases where the Arabic text is the literal reproduction of the Syriac of the Psitta. As examples to support what we put forward, we point out the passages which are not synoptic, but specific to a single Evangelist, such as the interview with the Samaritan woman, the discourse of the Savior at the Last Supper, the miracle of the blind, the parable of the prodigal son, the miracle of Cana, the appearance on the lake of Tiberiade, etc. etc.
Here, for more demonstration, the same texts of _Diatessaron_ and Psitta, touching this apparition. The few variants are due either to the translation or to the translator's faults. In V.V. 11 and 12 there is _specific to the Diatessaron_. Next to these two texts, we put those of the Sinaitique and the Curetonienne. We will see how great is the harmony, the similarity, often the identity, on the one hand, between the last two and, on the other hand, between the first two.
The remaining 20% could be reduced very easily, if one takes into account the attenuating circumstances which arise from the fact of harmony or translation.
a) And first of all should not be regarded as variants all the errors of translation which we pointed out there.
b) All words or expressions that we count as clean in Diatessaron.
c) Due to the translation, certain expressions are rendered differently in Arabic.
d) For the sake of harmony, the Arabic text often changes the plural to the singular and vice versa; especially in the stories-- like those of miracles-- related in the synoptics.
e) For the same reason, he gives a name where it is replaced by a pronoun; or else, it adds a conjuncture or there is none; or even, it subtracts where there is.
f) It renders the feminine plural, used in Syriac for the neutral, by the singular masculine.
g) He often omits the translation of the expression <... and it happened that> contenting himself with the conjunction <... when>.
h) Almost constantly, he returns <...> by <... Sons of homines> instead of <... Sons of man>.
i) Often <... or ...> are translated by the conjunction <... and>.
Here are some cases where the _Diatessaron_ changes the evangelical text for the sake of harmony. To bring out the difference more, we put the Syriac of the Psitta next to the Arabic text.
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-02-2020
"many direct translation references to Hebrew within the New Testament"
Do you think The Passion Translation erroneously used 'Aramaic' in these passages?:
(The Passion Translation)
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=TPT&quicksearch=aramaic&begin=47&end=73&limit=500
Matthew 27:46 And at three o’clock Jesus shouted with a mighty voice in Aramaic, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”—that is, “My God, My God, why have you deserted me?”
Mark 5:41 He tenderly clasped the child’s hand in his and said to her in Aramaic, “Talitha koum,” which means, “Little girl, wake up from the sleep of death.”
Mark 7:34 Then he gazed into heaven, sighed deeply, and spoke to the man’s ears and tongue, “Ethpathakh,” which is Aramaic for “Open up, now!”
Mark 15:34 About three o’clock, Jesus shouted with a mighty voice in Aramaic, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?”—that is, “My God, My God, why have you turned your back on me?”
Luke 23:37-38 Over Jesus’ head on the cross was written an inscription in Greek, Latin, and Aramaic: “This man is the king of all the Jews.” And all the soldiers laughed and scoffed at him, saying, “Hey! If you’re the king of Jews, why don’t you save yourself?”
John 5:1 Then Jesus returned to Jerusalem to observe one of the Jewish holy days. 2 Inside the city near the Sheep Gate there is a pool called in Aramaic, The House of Loving Kindness. And this pool is surrounded by five covered porches.
John 19:13 So when Pilate heard this threat, he relented and had Jesus, who was torn and bleeding, brought outside. Then he went up the elevated stone platform and took his seat on the judgment bench—which in Aramaic is called Gabbatha, or “The Bench.”
John 19:17 Jesus carried his own cross out of the city to the place called “The Skull,” which in Aramaic is Golgotha.
John 19:19-20 Pilate had them post a sign over the cross, which was written in three languages—Aramaic, Latin, and Greek. Many of the people of Jerusalem read the sign, for he was crucified near the city. The sign stated: “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews.”
John 20:16 “Mary,” Jesus interrupted her. Turning to face him, she said, “Rabboni!” (Aramaic for “my teacher”)
Acts 1:19 Everyone in Jerusalem knows what happened to him. That’s why the field where he died is called in Aramaic ‘Haqel Dama,’ that is, ‘The Bloody Field.’
Acts 6:1 During those days the number of Jesus’ followers kept multiplying greatly. But a complaint was brought against those who spoke Aramaic by the Greek-speaking Jews, who felt their widows were being overlooked during the daily distribution of food.
Acts 9:36 Now, there was a follower of Jesus who lived in Joppa. Her Aramaic name, Tabitha, means “gazelle.” She lived her life doing kind things for others and serving the poor.
Acts 21:40 When the commander gave his permission, Paul stood on the steps and gestured with his hands for the people to listen. When the crowd quieted down, Paul addressed them in Aramaic and said:
Acts 22:2 (Now, when everyone realized he was speaking to them in their Judean Aramaic language, the crowd became all the more attentive.)
Acts 26:14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice speaking to me in Aramaic, saying, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? You are only hurting yourself when you resist your calling.’
"Notice, the sign written over Jesus was in Greek, Latin, and Hebrew. Not Aramaic"
Aramaic has been around for thousands of years. One variety of Aramaic 'font' is what most would readily recognize as 'Hebrew' script.
"I assume that Hebrew was the commonly spoken language in and around Jerusalem, and Aramaic was more common in the more remote communities that would have been heavily influenced by foreign presence"
Is 'Haqel Dama': Hebrew? Aramaic?
Acts 1:19 (TPT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%201%3A19&version=TPT
Everyone in Jerusalem knows what happened to him. That’s why the field where he died is called in Aramaic[a] ‘Haqel Dama,’ that is, ‘The Bloody Field.’
a: Or “in the language of the region.” The Greek text is clear that the Jews of Jesus’ day spoke Aramaic, the language that Jesus and his apostles taught in. The Greek text transliterates the name of the field into a Greek equivalent for a Greek audience.
Is 'Bar-Abba': Hebrew? Aramaic?
Matthew 27:16 (TPT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A16&version=TPT
And at that time, Pilate was holding in custody a notorious criminal named Jesus Barabbas.[a]
a: As translated from the Hebrew Matthew and a few Greek manuscripts. Most Greek texts have only Barabbas. The name Barabbas is Aramaic and means “son of a father” or “son who is like his father.” ....
Q: Do you think "the Lord's Prayer" was originally composed in: Hebrew? Aramaic? Greek?
(The Peshitta's Matthew rendition of the prayer has extensive rhyming, the Peshitta's Lucan rendition has two fewer instances of rhyming, and I didn't detect any rhyming when looking at Greek and Hebrew versions of the prayer.)
A: "I do not know if the Lord’s prayer was spoken originally in Hebrew or Aramaic"
What do you think is more likely?:
a) God incarnate composed a prayer with extensive rhyming, or
b) God incarnate composed a prayer without rhyming, and it later got reworked by somebody into a prayer with extensive rhyming.
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-02-2020
When Jn 19:19-20 was originally written, do you think it had 1 word, or 2 different words, for 'title' in verses 19 and 20?
Both the Aramaic Peshitta and the by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron use 2 different words.
John 19 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/ylt/john/19.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/19-19.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/19-20.htm
19 And Pilate also wrote a title [Greek: titlon/ τίτλον/ a title], and put [it] on the cross, and it was written, ‘Jesus the Nazarene, the king of the Jews;’ 20 this title [Greek: titlon/ τίτλον/ title], therefore, read many of the Jews, because the place was nigh to the city where Jesus was crucified, and it was having been written in Hebrew, in Greek, in Roman.
Diatessaron, Section LI, modified to conform with my printed book copy; in its margin for this material it mentions Mt 27:36 and Jn 19:19-20.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
30. This the soldiers did. And they sat and guarded him there. And Pilate wrote on a tablet the cause of his death, and put it on the wood of the cross above his head.^9 And there was written upon it thus: THIS IS JESUS THE NAZARENE, THE KING OF THE JEWS. And this tablet^10 read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city: and it was written in Hebrew and Greek and Latin.
9: Mt. 27, 37.
10: A different word from that in the preceding verse; in each case, the word used in the Peshitta (Cur. and Sin. lacking).
John 19:19
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+19:19&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) And a tablet [Aramaic: l-u-kh-a: tablet] also wrote Pilatos, and set it on the cross; and it was thus written, This is Jeshu Natsroya, King of the Jihudoyee.
(Murdock) And Pilate also wrote a tablet, and affixed it to his cross. And thus it was written: THIS IS JESUS THE NAZAREAN, KING OF THE JEWS.
John 19:20
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+19:20&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) And this title [Aramaic: d-p-a: board, tablet, planks] many of the Jihudoyee read; for nigh to the city was the place where Jeshu was crucified; and the writing was in Hebrew and Greek and Roman.
(Murdock) And many of the Jews read this label; because the place where Jesus was crucified, was near to Jerusalem; and it was written in Hebrew and Greek and Latin.
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-02-2020
When Lk 1:15 was originally written, do you think it literally read "Spirit of Holiness"? or do you think it read "Holy Spirit"?
Do you think it read Aramaic "sh-k-r-a," or Greek "sikera/σίκερα" (which is transliterated Hebrew/Aramaic-- as if the Greek language lacked a word for 'strong drink.')
Both the Aramaic Peshitta and the by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron literally read "Spirit of Holiness."
Diatessaron, Section I, plus my printed book copy
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
[~16] And he shall be great before the Lord, and shall not drink wine nor strong drink, and he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit^3 while he is in his mother's womb.
3: Everywhere, except in the introductory notes, the Arabic is _the Spirit of Holiness_, as in the Arabic versions.
Luke 1:15 interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/1-15.htm
He will be for megas/μέγας/great before the Kyriou/Κυρίου/Lord and wine and sikera/σίκερα/strong-drink no not shall he drink and Pneumatos/Πνεύματος/Spirit N-GNS Hagiou/Ἁγίου/Holy Adj-GNS he will be filled even from womb of mother of him
Luke 1:15
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Luke+1:15&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) for he shall be great before the Lord, and wine and strong liquor [Shak'ra.] shall he not drink, and with the Spirit of Holiness shall he be filled, from the womb of his mother.
(Murdock) For he will be great before the Lord; and he will not drink wine nor strong drink [Aramaic: a'sh-k-r-a: and strong drink], and will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother's womb.
4608. sikera
https://biblehub.com/greek/4608.htm
sikera: fermented liquor
Original Word: σίκερα, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Indeclinable, Other Type
Transliteration: sikera
Phonetic Spelling: (sik'-er-ah)
Definition: fermented liquor
Usage: intoxicating drink.
HELPS Word-studies
4608 síkera (a transliteration of the Hebrew 7941/shēkhār, "alcoholic drink") – any fermented, intoxicating drink (sometimes made from grapes); "strong drink, fermented from fruits, grain, dates or honey, i.e. not distilled alcoholic beverages "such as whiskey, gin, and vodka, which were not known in the ancient world" (L & N, 1, 6.200).
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-06-2020
When 1 Timothy 4:13 was originally written, do you think it did, or didn't, mention prayer?
1Timothy 4:13
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=1Timothy+4:13&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) Till I come be diligent in reading, and in prayer, and in teaching.
(Murdock) Until I come, be diligent in reading, and in prayer, and in teaching.
(Lamsa) And until I come, strive to study, and continue in prayer and teaching.
(KJV) Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1 Timothy 4:13 (NASB)
https://biblehub.com/nas/1_timothy/4.htm
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20tim%204%3A13&version=NKJV;NASB
Until I come, give attention to the [public] reading [of Scripture], to exhortation and teaching.
1Ti 4:13 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
Until I come, be diligent in reading and in petition and in teaching.
1 Timothy 4:13 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/1_timothy/4-13.htm
Until I come, be diligent in reading, in prayer and in teaching.
Khabouris mentions both exhortation and prayer: based on
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=1Timothy+4:13&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
Until come I exhort/incite/encourage
in calling/vocation/reading/lesson
and in prayer/petition
and in teaching/instruction/doctrine.
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-12-2020
When Rev 4:3 was originally written, do you think it did, or didn't, make an explicit reference to clouds?
Revelation 4:3
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Revelation+4:3&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) And he who sat was like to the appearance of the stone of jaspon, and of sardion;
and the bow of the clouds was around the throne, in resemblance to the appearance of zmragda.
(Murdock) And he who sat, was like the appearance of a jasper-stone, and of a sardine [sard],
and of a rainbow of the clouds, round about the throne, in form as the appearance of emeralds.
(KJV) And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone:
and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
=======================================================================.
Do you think a reference to God’s throne does, or doesn’t, belong in Rev 11:16?
Revelation 11:16
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Revelation+11:16&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) And the twenty and four presbyters who were before the throne of Aloha, who were sitting upon their thrones, fell upon their faces and worshipped,
(Murdock) And the twenty and four Elders, who are before the throne of God, [and] who sit upon their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
(KJV) And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Revelation 4:2-4 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+4%3A2-4&version=NKJV
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. 3 [a]And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald. 4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white [b]robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.
Footnotes:
a: M omits _And He who sat there was_, making the following a description of the throne.
b: NU, M _robes, with crowns_
Revelation 7:11 (NKJV)
All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Revelation 19:4 (NKJV)
And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!”
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-12-2020
As recorded in Acts 11:28, do you think Agabus said there'd be a great famine in all the: world? country/land? country/land of Judea? Greek-inhabited world? Roman empire?
Acts 11 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+11&version=NKJV
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/11-28.htm
19 Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only. 20 But some of them were men from Cyprus and Cyrene, who, when they had come to Antioch, spoke to the Hellenists, preaching the Lord Jesus. 21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number believed and turned to the Lord. 22 Then news of these things came to the ears of the church in Jerusalem, and they sent out Barnabas to go as far as Antioch. .... 25 Then Barnabas departed for Tarsus to seek Saul. 26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. 27 And in these days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world [Greek: oikoumenēn/ οἰκουμένην/ world], which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar. 29 Then the disciples, each according to his ability, determined to send relief to the brethren dwelling in Judea. 30 This they also did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
Acts 11:28
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Acts+11:28&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) And one of them arose whose name was Agabos: and he made known to them by the Spirit that a great famine would be in all the land [Aramaic: a-r-ai-a]. And that famine was in the days of Claudios Caesar.
(Murdock) And one of them whose name was Agabus, stood up and informed them, by the Spirit, that there would be a great famine in all the country. And that famine occurred in the days of Claudius Caesar.
(KJV) And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr=2:1984&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&source=khabouris&size=125%25
ˀrˁ, ˀrˁˀ (ˀăraˁ, ˀarˁā) n.f. ground; land; Earth
OA ˀrq; Mand. spelling arqa (pronounced /arÉ”/)
1 ground Com. (a) land (opposite of water) Syr. P Mt14:24 .... and the boat was far from land.
2 land, country Com. BT Šab 116b(6) .... from the day that you went into exile from your land.
3 the Earth Com. BT BB 75b(26) .... it is three parasangs from the earth to the dark cloud. (a) in the expression "Heaven and Earth" Com. Fakh.2 .... Haddad of Sikanu, water supervisor of heaven and earth.
4 soil Com. BHBS.M Min 1.2.1 .... by the agitation of the waters particles of soil are made to move. BT Ned 55b(13) .... (mushrooms) do indeed grow out of the ground, (but) they actually draw their nourishment from the air and not from the ground. (a) piece of land, field Com. OS.P3 2 .... the unsown field, the house, the courtyard, and all of their appurtenances. Js 5:4 .... the workers who harvested your fields. BT MQ 10b(13) .... one who prepares a field for the sake of a threshing floor. (b) types of earth Syr. (b.1) .... silver Syr. BBah 299:25 . (b.2) .... mercury Syr. BBah 300:16 .
5 floor, bottom Palmyrene, Syr. PAT20:1.10 .... he is entombed on the bottom of the niche. EphPar 2:11.5 .... its bottom for the repentant, its middle for the just, its height for the splendid ones. BT BB 73b(31) .... the ax of the carpenters' shop descended (in the sea) for seven years and did not reach the bottom.
6 residue Syr. DuvB2 19:7 .
Acts 11:29
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Acts+11:29&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) Therefore the disciples, according as each of them had, determined to send for the service of those brethren who dwelt in Jihud;
(Murdock) And moreover the disciples, each of them according to his several ability, determined to send to the relief of the brethren who dwelt in Judaea.
(KJV) Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
3625. oikoumené
https://biblehub.com/greek/3625.htm
oikoumené: the inhabited earth
Original Word: οἰκουμένη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: oikoumené
Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kou-men'-ay)
Definition: the inhabited earth
Usage: (properly: the land that is being inhabited, the land in a state of habitation), the inhabited world, that is, the Roman world, for all outside it was regarded as of no account.
HELPS Word-studies
3625 oikouménē (from 3611 /oikéō, "to inhabit, dwell") – the inhabited earth, i.e. all people living on the inhabited globe.
[3625 (oikouménē) is "the land that is being inhabited, the land in a state of habitation, the inhabited world, that is, the Roman world (orbis terrarum), for all outside it was regarded as of no account" (Souter).
3625 (oikouménē) literally means "the inhabited (land)." It was "originally used by the Greeks to denote the land inhabited by themselves, in contrast with barbarian countries; afterward, when the Greeks became subject to the Romans, 'the entire Roman world;' still later, for 'the whole inhabited world' " (WS, 140,141).]
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
the fem. pres. pass. part. of oikeó
Definition
the inhabited earth
NASB Translation
inhabited earth (1), world (14).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3625: οἰκουμένη
οἰκουμένη, οἰκουμένης, ἡ (feminine of the present passive participle from οἰκέω (namely, γῆ; cf. Winers Grammar, § 64, 5; Buttmann, § 123, 8));
1. the inhabited earth;
a. in Greek writings often the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians, cf. Passow, ii., p. 415a; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, I.).
b. in the Greek authors who wrote about Roman affairs (like the Latinorbis terrarum) equivalent to the Roman empire: so πᾶσα ἡ οἰκουμένη contextually equivalent to all the subjects of this empire, Luke 2:1.
c. the whole inhabited earth, the world (so in (Hyperides, Eux. 42 (probably Liddell and Scott)) the Sept. for תֵּבֵל and אֶרֶץ): Luke 4:5; Luke 21:26; Acts 24:5; Romans 10:18; Revelation 16:14; Hebrews 1:6 (πᾶσα ἡ οἰκουμένη, Josephus, b. j. 7, 3, 3); ὅλῃ ἡ οἰκουμένη, Matthew 24:14; Acts 11:28 (in the same sense Josephus, Antiquities 8, 13, 4 πᾶσα ἡ οἰκουμένη; cf. Bleek, Erklär. d. drei ersten Evv. i., p. 68); by metonymy, the inhabitants of the earth, men: Acts 17:6, 31 (Psalm 9:9); ; ἡ οἰκουμένη ὅλῃ, all mankind, Revelation 3:10; Revelation 12:9.
2. the universe, the world: Wis. 1:7 (alternating there with τά πάντα); ἡ οἰκουμένη μελλουσα, that consummate state of all things which will exist after Christ's return from heaven, Hebrews 2:5 (where the word alternates with πάντα and τά πάντα, Hebrews 2:8, which there is taken in an absolute sense).
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
earth, world.
Feminine participle present passive of oikeo (as noun, by implication, of ge); land, i.e. The (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire -- earth, world.
Antioch in Syria was well north of Jerusalem. Ref:
https://www.conformingtojesus.com/charts-maps/en/paul%27s_journeys_map.htm
772. ara
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/772.htm
ara: the earth
Original Word: אֲרַע
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: ara
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-ah')
Definition: the earth
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
(Aramaic) corresponding to erets
Definition
the earth
NASB Translation
earth (15), ground (3), inferior (1), land (1).
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-13-2020
What’s the better rendering for Rev 10:1:
“feet as columns/pillars of fire”?
“legs as columns/pillars of fire”?
Revelation 10:1
http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Revelation+10:1&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/10-1.htm
(Etheridge) AND I saw another mighty angel descending from heaven, clothed (with a) cloud, and the bow of the cloud (was) upon his head; and his countenance was as the sun, and his feet as columns of fire.
(KJV) And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet [Greek: podes/πόδες/feet] as pillars of fire:
Revelation 10:1 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/revelation/10-1.htm
And I saw another Angel who descended from Heaven and he wore a cloud and a rainbow of the sky on his head and his appearance was like the Sun, and his legs like pillars of fire.
4228. pous
https://biblehub.com/greek/4228.htm
pous: a foot
Original Word: πούς, ποδός, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: pous
Phonetic Spelling: (pooce)
Definition: a foot
Usage: the foot.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
a foot
NASB Translation
feet (83), foot (9), under* (1).
http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/word.php?adr=2:19393&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&source=ubs&size=125%25
rgl, rglˀ (rḡel, re/iḡlā) n.f. foot; pilgrimage
CPA …; pl. in īn but in Syr. also ān, āṯā in metaphorical senses.
1 foot Com-OA. TAD A4.7R.16 …. the dogs removed the chain from his feet. Dan7:19 …. while it was trampling the remainder with its feet. P Ex3:5 …. untie your shoes from your feet. P Is1:6 …. the sole of the foot [MT ….]. BT Suk 53a(23) … a person’s feet are his surety. They transport him to the place where he is sought (at his death). (a) leg of a table, chair JLAtg, Syr, LJLA. TgO Ex25:26 . P Ex25:26 …. PJ Ex25:26 …. the four corners of the four legs. (a.1) base, bottom Syr. EphPar 1:4.4 …. it touched its [the mountain of Paradise] feet, lowered itself, and retreated. (b) foot (as a measure) Syr. ESRef1ER 52:1 . © in adv. expressions (c.1) … on foot JLAtg, Syr. TgJ Jud4:15 … then Sisera got off of the chariot and turned back on foot. OS MtCur14:13 … they went after him on foot. JulSok 433(213):3 … Shapur arose from his dais and came toward him on foot. (c.2) … at his feet Syr. P Jn20:12 … who were sitting, one at his head and one at his feet .
2 march (a) pilgrimage festival Qumran, Gal, JBA. 1QapGen 12.14 … on the first day of the first festival in the [seventh ??] month. BT Ber 30a(51) … PN and PN2 used to gather ten people on the Sabbath of the pilgrimage, pray the teïfillah, and then go out to the public lecture. (a.1) rigla : a memorial festival of the be rav JBAg. ISGF 90:19, 91:11 . (b) military campaign or movement OfAPer. TAD C2.1 5..11 … on the second march the rebels had assembled.
3 as prep.: because of Gal. PTBer5.a:23[2] … because of him (the Temple) was destroyed, and because of him it will be rebuilt. (a)… ibid. Gal. EchRB[1]89(16) … we trust that it was destroyed because of him and will be rebuilt because of him. (b) … ibid. Gal.
4 a plant name : milk vetch (?) Syr. GalSimp 253:11 .
For the colloquial Babylonian form with metathesis, see s.v. ngr #6. That dialect does regularly distinguish between the original form for "pilgrimage" (a Hebraism!) and the metathetic form for the appendage.
David Robert Palmer, The Revelation of John, part of The Holy Bible, The Ancient Greek Text, alternating verse by verse with A new English translation from the Greek, with translator's footnotes and Greek textual variant footnotes (May 2017)
http://bibletranslation.ws/palmer-translation/
PDF:
http://www.bibletranslation.ws/trans/revwgrk.pdf
170 10:1b The Greek word here, πους, is the word for feet, but in ancient Greek and many other
languages the words for foot or for hand (χειρ) can mean the whole extremity or whole limb.
That is especially true in Revelation, which displays much Aramaic influence. It is far more
appropriate here to speak of a leg being like a column or pillar than a foot being like a column
or pillar.
....
246 13:16b .... An Aramaism is an unusual and rare occurrence, and I think the burden of proof
that it is occurring, is on the one saying it is. That said, I have come to believe that Revelation does
show an Aramaic mind in its author. For example, though even ancient Greek the words for
foot πούς and hand χείρ originally meant the whole limb, not just the foot and hand, this is
most definitely always true in Hebrew and Aramaic. The author of Revelation uses πούς,
“foot” to mean the whole limb, where he says the feet of the angel were like “columns” of fire
Legs are like columns, and feet are not. Therefore similarly, we must conclude that in
Revelation 13:16, with χείρ the author means anywhere on the entire upper right limb, not
just the hand.
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-14-2020
"I do peek at the Aramaic" You're not the 1st to do so, and hopefully not the last. From below:
"the Peshito New Testament. The latter holds a high place among scholars, as it helps to clear up some passages of the Greek Testament."
_Early Bibles of America: Being a Descriptive Account of Bibles Published in the United States, Mexico and Canada_ (1894), https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq="stands+preeminent+among+the+numerous+versions"&sig=ACfU3U0P5vPxjpZlaNPJAfQJ2DV21BJTCw&id=6fgy9lP97YkC&ots=6zuCqHTOKc&output=text
THE FIRST TRANSLATION FROM THE PESHITO SYRIAC VERSION.
Among the oldest versions of the Old and New Testaments is the Peshito Syriac. The word "Peshito" has been variously defined. Some writers give it the meaning of "simple," as having reference to the simplicity and clearness of style that characterize this ancient version. Others think the word means "literal," as indicating exactness and correctness. Still others are of the opinion that it conveys the idea of the word "common" in the sense of comprehensive, just as we speak of the Book of Common Prayer. Any of these meanings is a tribute to the value of the Peshito.
"Its language," writes Michaelis, "is elegant and pure. It is not loaded with foreign idioms, and it discovers the hand of a master in rendering those passages where the idioms of the two languages deviate from each other. It has no marks of the stiffness of a translation, but is written with the ease and fluency of an original."
Wolfgang Francius says:^1 [1: "Treatise on Hermeneutics," p. 38.] "Among all the versions of the New Testament, that which holds the first rank, and is the most exact, felicitous and divine, is certainly the Syriac, which undoubtedly was most faithfully handed down by apostolical men, who remembered well the recently uttered words of Christ and his apostles, and understood their meaning, for Christ himself used this language."
To this testimony may be added the words of Dr. Murdock, who says:^2 [2: Murdock's "Translation of the Syriac New Testament,'' Appendix II., p. 497.] "The great value of this translation depends on its high antiquity, on the competence and fidelity of the translators, and on the affinity of its language to that spoken by our Lord and his Apostles. In all these respects it stands preeminent among the numerous versions of the New Testament."
While there is no doubt concerning the antiquity of this version, there is a wide range of opinion as to its exact date. Home, in his "Introduction," says: "Bishop Walton, Carpzov, Leusden, Bishop Lowth, and Dr. Kennicott fix its date to the first century; Bauer and some other German writers, to the second or third century; Jahn fixes it, at the least, to the second century; De Rossi pronounces it to be very ancient, but does not specify any precise date. The most probable opinion is that of Michaelis, who ascribes the Syriac version of both Testaments to the close of the first, or to the earlier part of the second century, at which time the Syrian churches flourished most, and the Christians at Edessa had a temple for divine worship erected after the model of that at Jerusalem, and it is not to be supposed that they would be without a version of the Old Testament, the reading of which had been introduced by the Apostles."^1 [1: Horne's " Introduction," vol. i., p. 270.]
While the date has not been fixed, it can be said that the Peshito was an old version even in the time of Ephraim the Syrian, who died in 373. Of the authorship of the version nothing is known, though it is evident that it came from many hands. From certain resemblances to the Septuagint, it is thought that Jewish converts had much to do with this version. Of the place where it was written nothing can be said definitely, though it has been conjectured that it may have been written at Antioch or Edessa. The versions known as the Philoxenian and Hierosolymitian are of later date and of little value compared with the Peshito New Testament. The latter holds a high place among scholars, as it helps to clear up some passages of the Greek Testament.
The first edition of the Peshito New Testament was printed in Vienna in 1555, under the patronage of the Emperor of Austria, and was designed for the use of the Jacobite Christians of the East. In later years other editions were printed in Germany, Belgium, Italy, France, and England. In some cases the Testaments were printed in Syriac and Latin, or in Syriac and Hebrew. In 1816 the British and Foreign Bible Society published an edition in the Syriac alone, which was intended for missionary use in India.
The first translation in Great Britain of the Peshito New Testament into English was made in 1846, by J. W. Etheridge, LL.D., who published the first Four Gospels, and later the remainder of the New Testament. The first translation of the Peshito New Testament in the United States came from the pen of the Rev. James Murdock, D.D., in 1851.
RE: book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic? - DavidFord - 02-15-2020
Some have dissented from the popular view. Wrote James Holding in 1884, "But He [Christ], their True Shepherd, addressed them [His apostles] in their own common speech, and where His very words have come down to us, they need no translation in the Peshito. Let the reader just dismiss his Greek, until its claim to be the first apostolic Testament can be based on firmer ground than any which we can find put forward by its boldest supporters. One-sided learning they may exhibit, but, to us, it appears devoted to trying to prop up a shaky theory."[1] In connection with the gospel of John, Holding remarks, "It may be noticed that we write Syriac _readings_, and not _renderings_; and this we do advisedly, for we wish to avoid words which would lead the reader to think that we admit that his Syriac is only a version from Greek. We see proof ever augmenting that the Peshito is no translation, but an original production of the first writers, slightly revised perhaps, and enriched by, here and there, a note from the pen of inspired revisers, but in its main bulk, the work of those holy men whom Jesus told the Jews, in His last public discourse, would yet appear and make a final appeal to the nation before its overthrow."
In 1855, James Murdock quoted Yale College President Ezra Stiles as saying in his Inaugural Oration, “Kindred with this, [the Hebrew,] or rather a _bath-kol_, and daughter-voice, is the Syriac, in which the greater part of the New Testament (I believe) was originally written, and not merely translated, in the Apostolic age. ... The Syriac Testament, therefore, is of high authority; nay, with me, of the same authority as the Greek.” [2] Murdock goes on to observe that, "Many have believed that Matthew's Gospel and the Epistle to the Hebrews, if not also some other books, were originally written in Hebrew or Jewish Aramaean," and adds, "J.A. Bolten (in his German Translation of the Epistles, with Notes, Altona, 1800, 2 vols. 8vo.) maintains that nearly all the Epistles must have been first composed by the Apostles in Aramaean, their native tongue, and then committed by them to some of their Grecizing companions, (e.g. Titus, Timothy, Tertius, Sosthenes, &c.,) by whom they were translated into Greek before their publication. And Bertholdt (Einleitung, § 46, vol. i. p. 148–154) accedes to, and defends, this opinion. And he thinks that, after due time for reflection, the learned world will generally come into it."
1. _The Rainbow, a magazine of Christian literature_, Volume 21 (1884), pg. 209 https://books.google.com/books?id=a0MEAAAAQAAJ&lpg=PA211&ots=sX3d07icTc&dq=%22life%20in%20the%20syriac%20gospels%22&pg=PA209#v=onepage&q=%22life%20in%20the%20syriac%20gospels%22&f=false
2. _Murdock's Translation of the Syrian New Testament from the Peschito Version_ (1855), 515 pp., 499-500 https://books.google.com/books?id=Ve5FAQAAMAAJ&dq=%22nay%2C%20with%20me%2C%20of%20the%20same%20authority%20as%20the%20Greek%22&pg=PA500#v=onepage&q=%22nay,%20with%20me,%20of%20the%20same%20authority%20as%20the%20Greek%22&f=false
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"much of it was written in Greek" How'd you come to that conclusion?
John Hancock Pettingell, _Views and Reviews in Eschatology: A Collection of Letters, Essays, and Other Papers Concerning the Life and Death to Come_ (1887), 501 pp., essay "The Gospel of Life in the Syriac New Testament" pp. 41-98, on 48
https://books.google.com/books?id=WXZIAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA48#v=onepage&q&f=false
I propose nothing more in this paper than, in a modest way, to give the results of my own inquiry in this line, for the consideration of others.
1. The common impression that the entire New Testament was first written in Greek, and that all the copies we now have, in whatever tongue, are copies, or translations of the original manuscripts, when seriously examined, is found to have no certain foundation. And yet this has been taken almost universally, for granted. It is probable, that this is true with respect to some, possibly a majority of these books. But it is more than probable, if not quite certain, that some portions of the New Testament, such as the Gospel of Matthew, the Epistles to the Hebrews, and others, which will hereafter be mentioned, were first written in the vernacular Syriac of the Jews, and were afterward translated into Greek; and that other portions, perhaps most of the books, were duplicated, at the time they were written, by their authors, or under their direction,-- one copy being furnished to those who were familiar with the Greek, and another to those who knew only the Syriac.