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Matthew 26:17 before or on - Printable Version

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Matthew 26:17 before or on - distazo - 04-16-2017

Hi All,

What about the translation of Matthew 26:17 or Mark 14:12?
Markus 14:12

ܘܰܒ݂ܝܰܘܡܳܐ ܩܰܕ݂ܡܳܝܳܐ ܕ݁ܦ݂ܰܛܺܝܪܶܐ

It normally is translated as 'on the first day of the unleavened bread'
However, qadmoyo, is not an ordinal by definition, it also means 'before' (like in, standing before the king) or 'former' like in 'former days'.

So, would it be allowable / possible to translate it as on the day, before the unleavened bread?

However, that would ignore the 'daleth' prefix, genitive, of the 'unleavened bread'.

In revelation, we see the phrase: "On the first day of the week", there we see the word "ܘܰܒ݂ܝܰܘܡܳܐ ܕ݁ܚܰܕ݂ ܒ݁ܫܰܒ݁ܳܐ" where you see ܚܰܕ ((numeral) instead of qadam. However, in the NT, I cannot find enough idiom, which justifies my thoughts. 


Your thoughts, please Smile


RE: Matthew 26:17 before or on - Thirdwoe - 04-18-2017

It might be possible to translate it thus, but I don't have perfect knowledge.

Matt 26:17a "Now during the fore day of Phatiyre {the feast of the unleavened cakes}, the Talmiyde came to Eshu and said unto Him..."

Mark 14:12a "And during the fore day of Phatiyre {the feast of the unleavened cakes}, the one during which the Jews sacrifice the Paskha, the Talmiyde said unto Him..."

In Matt, using the rendering "fore day", rather than "first day" seemingly solves the problem, and wouldn't be a problem with the daleth prefix.

Note that in Mark, "the fore day", or "the 1st day", if that is the correct rendering, is said to be the day when the Jews sacrificed the lambs, which would have been on the 13th day of the 1st month on the Jewish calendar, not the 15th day of the month which begins the feast of unleavened cakes/bread, after the day of Passover.

So the problem with the rendering of "on the first day" is that the sacrifice of the lambs would then be done on the 1st day of Phatiyre {the feast of the unleavened cakes}, being the 15th day of the 1st month, which was actually two days AFTER the lambs were to be sacrificed on the 13th day, which was to be done during the daylight hours of the afternoon before the Pascha {Passover} lambs were to be eaten that evening which was the beginning of the 14th day and which proceeded Phatiyre {the feast of the unleavened cakes/breads} which was to take place the next evening on the 15th day.

Also consider the statement in Luke 20:1, where it says... "Now the feast of Phatiyre was near, which is called Paskha."

It may be that the whole period beginning with the 14th day of the 1st month, that being the day of Passover proper when the lambs were to be eaten, including the feast of Phatiyre when the unleavened bread cakes were to be eaten, was inclusively called "Passover".

So then "the 1st day of Phatiyre, could very well be on the 14th day of the 1st month, since the two feasts, Paskha/Phatiyre, were lumped together and simply called Paskha/Passover. This is true today as well where the term "Passover" includes the two, or three feast days, namely Passover/Unleavened Bread/First-Fruits.

It seems then that when the Talmiyde asked Eshu about this, it would have occurred during afternoon daylight hours of the 13th day of the 1st month, because they were to eat the slain lambs that coming evening, after sundown, which then would be the beginning of the 14th day of the week. The 15th day at sundown, 24 hours later, was the start of Phatiyre {the feast of the unleavened cakes/breads}, where no roasted lamb were eaten...because the lambs were to be fully consumed the night before, on the 14th day of the 1st month.

In any case, I think "fore day" works best in the passages, if that is an allowable rendering.

.


RE: Matthew 26:17 before or on - distazo - 04-18-2017

I got reply from my malpano, and he did not agree with the suggestion.
You cannot mixup the preposition qdm with qdmoyo ajective, in short...

The day before would write as ܘܰܒܝܰܘܡܳܐ ܩܕܳܡ ܦܰܛܻܝܪ̈ܶܐ as he said.


RE: Matthew 26:17 before or on - Thirdwoe - 04-18-2017

According to Dukhrana, the word ܩܕܡܝܐ can also mean "fore" or "predecessor", so it could mean the day before, not just the first day. 


RE: Matthew 26:17 before or on - distazo - 04-20-2017

(04-18-2017, 05:50 PM)Thirdwoe Wrote: According to Dukhrana, the word ܩܕܡܝܐ can also mean "fore" or "predecessor", so it could mean the day before, not just the first day. 

Sure Smile Thanks.
But if you translate 'on the day fore of the unleavened' something does not sound right?

The word 'fore day' is not quite Dutch (translated to Dutch anyway).


RE: Matthew 26:17 before or on - Thirdwoe - 04-21-2017

"on the fore day of Phatiyre" means on the day before the feast of unleavened bread.

Think about it. If it was the 1st day of Phatiyre, then that would have to be the 15th day of the 1st month on the Jews calendar.

The passage is speaking of their desire to go an prepare to eat the Passover with Jesus. Which is to take place on the 14th day of the 1st month.

So, they would be a day late in eating the Passover, which took place the day before Phatiyre.

Rendering it "The first day of unleavened bread" causes problems. Rendering it "The fore day of the feast of Unleavened Bread." The problems are not there. 

This is a problem I have long perplexed over and until you brought it up had not thought there could be an answer to the problem.

Shlama

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RE: Matthew 26:17 before or on - distazo - 04-21-2017

ok, happy to be of service Smile But in Dutch, this will not work.


RE: Matthew 26:17 before or on - Thirdwoe - 04-22-2017

Perhaps you could give its meaning in Dutch, without translating it word for word. Sometimes we cant translate one language straight over to another in every place, but need to interpret rather than translate. We see Ezra do this in the Bible passage where the Hebrew was read to the people, and he "gave the sense" to them of what was written in the Hebrew.