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daily bread - Manuel - 12-24-2013

Hi

in Mt 6,11 the greek text says : "ton arton ....ton epiousion"

What could you think it could be the aramaic word that originally Jesus said translated as "epiousion"?

Thanks

Manuel


Re: daily bread - SteveCaruso - 12-24-2013

Sine epuousios is a hapax legomenon in Greek it really brings up some fascinating questions as whomever was translating from the original Aramaic needed to express something very specific. It's generally, in a literal sense, translated into English as "super-substantial" as in "that which is just above the necessary amount to subsist upon."

In the Peshitta there is swnqn which means "want," but that doesn't quite "fit" for epuousios. There are plenty of Greek words that could translate swnqn directly. Plus it's a strictly Syriac word (it does not appear in any other dialect), which wouldn't make sense for Jesus to have originally used, given his own background and the place the Prayer was originally recited.

In my original reconstruction (which is outlined here: http://aramaicnt.org/articles/the-lords-prayer-in-galilean-aramaic/), I used ylyp. Since then I believe that cwrk (needed, necessary, from the root "to be poor"; just above poverty) is probably the best fit, and it's what I use on the Lord's Prayer Bracelet.


Re: daily bread - distazo - 12-25-2013

Steve,

You have "And lead us not into temptation"

Weird, isn't it? Would Yeshu really learn us to ask God to lead us NOT into temptation?

As if we forget to ask, God will tempt us?


Re: daily bread - Manuel - 12-26-2013

SteveCaruso Wrote:Sine epuousios is a hapax legomenon in Greek it really brings up some fascinating questions as whomever was translating from the original Aramaic needed to express something very specific. It's generally, in a literal sense, translated into English as "super-substantial" as in "that which is just above the necessary amount to subsist upon."

In the Peshitta there is swnqn which means "want," but that doesn't quite "fit" for epuousios. There are plenty of Greek words that could translate swnqn directly. Plus it's a strictly Syriac word (it does not appear in any other dialect), which wouldn't make sense for Jesus to have originally used, given his own background and the place the Prayer was originally recited.

In my original reconstruction (which is outlined here: http://aramaicnt.org/articles/the-lords-prayer-in-galilean-aramaic/), I used ylyp. Since then I believe that cwrk (needed, necessary, from the root "to be poor"; just above poverty) is probably the best fit, and it's what I use on the Lord's Prayer Bracelet.

Hi Steve

I read your deep and interesting article about the Lord's Prayer. But how do you connect the root /yelip/ with /epiousios/? I mean (excuse me if my english is not so good): how do you come from epiousios to yelip?

Manuel
Manuel


Re: daily bread - Manuel - 12-26-2013

Manuel Wrote:
SteveCaruso Wrote:Sine epuousios is a hapax legomenon in Greek it really brings up some fascinating questions as whomever was translating from the original Aramaic needed to express something very specific. It's generally, in a literal sense, translated into English as "super-substantial" as in "that which is just above the necessary amount to subsist upon."

In the Peshitta there is swnqn which means "want," but that doesn't quite "fit" for epuousios. There are plenty of Greek words that could translate swnqn directly. Plus it's a strictly Syriac word (it does not appear in any other dialect), which wouldn't make sense for Jesus to have originally used, given his own background and the place the Prayer was originally recited.

In my original reconstruction (which is outlined here: http://aramaicnt.org/articles/the-lords-prayer-in-galilean-aramaic/), I used ylyp. Since then I believe that cwrk (needed, necessary, from the root "to be poor"; just above poverty) is probably the best fit, and it's what I use on the Lord's Prayer Bracelet.

Hi Steve

I read your deep and interesting article about the Lord's Prayer. But how do you connect the root /yelip/ with /epiousios/? I mean (excuse me if my english is not so good): how do you come from epiousios to yelip?

Manuel
Manuel


PS: and even the word /cwrk/ how do you suppose to be connected with the word epiousios?

Manuel